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Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

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Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#61

Post by anticodon »

parl_match wrote: post #13
rich_sasha wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Story from a friend. Once, flying on a Russian domestic airline flight, they noticed something like a little shrine at the back. Some black and white photos, flowers, mementos. They asked the cabin crew about it. Response was, well, the plane had crashed once, killing some people on board, including some staff. So they are commemorated here. But the plane is fine. Anecdote aside, it's fair to say Russia has a somewha…

To be fair, in America I don't think we have rules against reintroducing planes involved in deadly incidents, but are still airworthy. The shrine is a bit wild, though.

We have a word for US movies and books portraying Russia: "klukva" (cranberry). Because in every US made movie and US written book amount of lies and confabulations about Russian history and Russian culture is so high, that it deserves a special word.

E.g. I was reading a book recently by John le Carré and had to stop after reading about 50 pages. I simply couldn't continue. E.g. there's a scene where Russian traitor comes to "Chechen" restaurant in the center of St. Petersburg, and orders only a glass of vodka.

Firstly, there are no Chechen restaurants. Especially in the center of St. Petersburg. I don't know why, but anybody living here in Russia wouldn't be able to find any Chechen restaurant in Moscow or St. Petersburg. Russian, Ukranian, Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese, whatever, but not Chechen. Secondly, not all Russians drink vodka, not even majority. Vodka is considered a drink for poor and alcoholics. I don't think it's true, I think that vodka is superior to many other spirits, but that's the typical Russian stereotype. Thirdly, Russian people never order just vodka. We always drink vodka together with substantial food. Not only it is considered a very poor taste to drink vodka without food, it's also absolutely not enjoyable to consume it this way.

And on the cover of the book it was written that the story is very close to the truth, which makes Le Carré special. OMG.

So, this whole story about a shrine in a plane is bullshit.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#62

Post by mighmi »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #12
reacharavindh wrote: post #3

How in the world would any common Russian trust an airplane in this current sanctioned state in Russia and fly in one?! Are people that brainwashed to trust their leader to get on a plane that doesn’t have brakes?!

Life matters not there. Not in war. Not in peace. Not in travel. Not in home. Most Western countries obsess about proventing deaths. The USA does as well, except among poor people and gun victims.

> The USA does as well, except among poor people and gun victims.

I suggest you look at the actual causes of death in the US: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db456.htm#secti... Considering typical health outcomes in the US, obesity and the life choices people make, I don't think you can honestly say the US obsesses about preventing deaths. Of course, improved health care access and personal health wouldn't materially change the numbers, just the ages where those end of life diseases finally win.

A magnitude less than the causes there, car crashes are around 12.9/100,000, and guns are at 10/100,000 (54% suicides, 1% "accidents") - and the US car death rate is significantly higher than Europe or elsewhere, very preventable with more stringent driving tests and lower blood alcohol level allowances.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#63

Post by avar »

keddad wrote: post #20
reacharavindh wrote: post #3

How in the world would any common Russian trust an airplane in this current sanctioned state in Russia and fly in one?! Are people that brainwashed to trust their leader to get on a plane that doesn’t have brakes?!

I flew from Moscow to Vladivastok recently, and it's a choice between 8 hour flight and a week in a train. The planes might be missing some maintenance, but they are certainly not falling out of the skies, and it's not like the trains can't fail (especially considering occasional train tracks sabotages). There are always risks, it's not that big of a deal.

Isn't the in-between choice to drive or fly out of Russia towards Europe, then fly east on a non-Russian airline, and eventually take e.g. the Tokyo to Vladivostok direct flight?

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#64

Post by oceanplexian »

rich_sasha wrote: post #10
reacharavindh wrote: post #3

How in the world would any common Russian trust an airplane in this current sanctioned state in Russia and fly in one?! Are people that brainwashed to trust their leader to get on a plane that doesn’t have brakes?!

Story from a friend. Once, flying on a Russian domestic airline flight, they noticed something like a little shrine at the back. Some black and white photos, flowers, mementos. They asked the cabin crew about it. Response was, well, the plane had crashed once, killing some people on board, including some staff. So they are commemorated here. But the plane is fine. Anecdote aside, it's fair to say Russia has a somewha…

I flew on a Russian domestic flight 10-ish years ago, and people were still lighting up cigarettes on the plane if that says anything.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#65

Post by bartread »

anticodon wrote: post #27

[flagged]

Yes, but you'll note that the article you've shared doesn't unequivocally and unambiguously state that only some of the brakes are being disabled: they imply it, with some handwavey talk about redundancy of systems, but they don't specifically say that that's what's actually happening in this specific situation. Whereas when I look at specialist aviation sites, rather than mainstream news, it's clearly stated that what's being talked about is complete disabling of all wheel braking systems.

And, yes, aircraft can safely land without brakes (although they might be hard-pressed to safely abort a takeoff). But what happens after that 10-day permitted period the article discusses?

I'm sure there's a black market in replacement aircraft parts that will help with maintenance, and I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of Russian industrial espionage to gain plans, or reverse-engineer (especially with the help of China), and manufacture locally sourced replacement parts, but that doesn't appear to have happened to an extent sufficient to cover ongoing maintenance needs yet.

And so we have this situation: the normalisation of deviance.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#66

Post by striking »

woodruffw wrote: post #55
wmil wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trains are more vulnerable because they will always have long unguarded sections of track. A train without breaks isn't really comparable because the planes can break using thrusters. I don't believe that you can engine break on a train to a comparable degree.

> A train without breaks isn't really comparable because the planes can break using thrusters. I'm pretty sure a plane at V1 can't break using thrusters.

I believe this to be true (the article definitely states "Brakes are also necessary for aborting takeoffs", and V1 is the speed at which takeoff ~~occurs~~ edit: must be committed to), but this is only one instant of the journey. At other times it is certainly feasible to brake (landings included) with just the use of the thrust reversers.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#67

Post by hedgehog »

sillywalk wrote: post #21

My heart bleeds. FTA: "Many parts in (western made) Russian passenger aircraft that would normally be easily replaced are rapidly wearing out with no replacement parts in sight due to the import of spare aircraft parts from Boeing and Airbus being banned since March 2022. " I wonder what other parts are wearing out.

I would be curious about things like lubrication and the hydraulic systems where deferring maintenance is easy but repairs once there are problems are potentially very costly. Hopefully the manufacturers can get some of the data back, it seems like this kind of deferred maintenance is an experiment nobody would run willingly but given that it's happening the data could help improve safe and efficient fleet operations.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#68

Post by anticodon »

woodruffw wrote: post #43
anticodon wrote: post #27

[flagged]

TFA quotes The Moscow Times[1]. Nobody said anything about drunkards. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buRP_2XAQys

The Moscow Times is a western propaganda source as well. It's main office is in Amsterdam, not in Moscow. The only difference is that it is directed mainly to the English speaking expats living in Russia. So amount of confabulations is probably 10-20% lower than in the Western domestic propaganda, because expats can see with their own eyes that we're not eating hedgehogs, for example.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#69

Post by blibble »

closewith wrote: post #47
blibble wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but they are certainly not falling out of the skies they will be shortly and you won't hear about it unless you're on it

Hard to hide an airliner crash in this day and age. Certainly over land, anyway.

I'd agree if it was almost any other country

meanwhile the Russian state has complete control of the media and 99% of the country's area is essentially empty

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#70

Post by bartread »

mulmen wrote: post #29
anticodon wrote: post #27

[flagged]

I don’t speak russian, would you mind pointing out the relevant part of that article that inverts the claim of disabled brakes?

Drop the URL in here: https://translate.google.co.uk/?sl=auto&tl=en&op=websites. Russian to English translation is certainly good enough to understand the thrust of the article. It makes "cunning" use of handwaving and misdirection in this case.
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