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Write your passwords down (2010)

blog.jgc.org

41–50 of 196 posts

Re: Write your passwords down (2010)

#41
post #11

Algorithmically generated passwords for different sites was a mind-blower. There are so many differentiation algorithms that are trivially runnable in your head. If most sites are salting and hashing passwords correctly (this is 2023...), then that drastically decreases your compromised credential blast radius. -- And it makes me sad that "store your passwords on dead-tree paper" became GOTO. It has serious weaknesse…

Spectre does that, is OSS and multiplatform: https://spectre.app/

i.e. it generates password given your name, a master password, and the website hostname (or whatever).

Quite handy.

Re: Write your passwords down (2010)

#42

this is 2023, use KeepassX. If you're really paranoid, store it on a offline laptop. but if you want real security, use a security token (e.g. yubikey) or some other smartcard solution.

> but if you want real security, use a security token (e.g. yubikey) or some other smartcard solution.

In the past I thought about it but my head kept coming up with ridiculous scenarios like "what if your yubikey breaks, AND your backup yubikey breaks?!". I'll just keep using KeePassXC database (backed up in multiple places).

Re: Write your passwords down (2010)

#43
post #21
post #11

Algorithmically generated passwords for different sites was a mind-blower. There are so many differentiation algorithms that are trivially runnable in your head. If most sites are salting and hashing passwords correctly (this is 2023...), then that drastically decreases your compromised credential blast radius. -- And it makes me sad that "store your passwords on dead-tree paper" became GOTO. It has serious weaknesse…

The KeePass unhosted ecosystem seems to fit your requirements. I recently switched to it from 1Password and am happy with it. I distribute the database to my various devices with (open source) Syncthing.

The distributed part is crucial, especially to avoid potential hardware failure. Happened to me, older machine ram (might be misremembering, that old machine had several parts replaced) failure made keypass unable to validate, claiming a corrupt database.

Re: Write your passwords down (2010)

#44
post #11

Algorithmically generated passwords for different sites was a mind-blower. There are so many differentiation algorithms that are trivially runnable in your head. If most sites are salting and hashing passwords correctly (this is 2023...), then that drastically decreases your compromised credential blast radius. -- And it makes me sad that "store your passwords on dead-tree paper" became GOTO. It has serious weaknesse…

Bitwarden. Its dead simple and cross-platform + regularly audited. And either FREE or $10 a year for 2FA and some other nice to haves. Obviously there's other choices for those who want more control over it but you can't go wrong with BW.

Notably, Bitwarden is also self-hostable, which, in combination with the good mobile clients, was enough to get me to switch to it from Keepass.

Re: Write your passwords down (2010)

#45
post #9
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, using phrases is so much nicer and better in every way. It annoys me when sites demand a password should have a special character or upper case letter in it. Or even worse: a max length.

Max lengths are so sketchy because this makes it more likely the crazy guys are actually storing your password rather than the fixed size hash.

I remember my annoyance when I banked with Wells Fargo and they had a maximum password length of something like 12 or 16 characters. Later I found out they would lowercase the password before sending it to the server.

Re: Write your passwords down (2010)

#46
This is great until you find a website which requires or disallows select special characters. With so many sites allowing a password reset via email, I wish we embraced the password-less login email "magic" link such as used by Slack.

Re: Write your passwords down (2010)

#47
What I found interesting is go to the (ref) for his advice of writing down passwords, which is a 2005 blog post from Bruce Schneier. His advice seems obvious and correct even then, but just scroll through the comments and see the terrible password recommendations people were giving back then:

> Why not just use a combination of words and numbers you can remember, and mix in some 7331 speak? I find this to be easy to do. Example Th0M42Y0rk3

> one recommendation I heard a while back was to mix in other information into the passwords when you write them down…like your phone number or driver’s license number or address, etc, etc – stuff you know very well already…

> One of the most interesting ways that I’ve heard of to create strong passwords is to use a pattern of keystrokes from your keyboard, i.e. a circle of all the keys around the ‘F’ key for example, or an inverted V starting at the ‘x’ and ending at the ‘b’.

> This is great timing… I just gave a security awareness presentation where this was one of the topics. My advise was to take a short phrase, do some creative (i.e. non predictable) substitutions and use that as your password. Then you can write down your phrase as a reminder without revealing the password.

It seems like security experts spent a tremendous amount of effort to try and prevent people from writing down their passwords, then the world changed so much that "your attacker achieves physical access to your wallet and steals your passwords" was not a significant threat to most people any longer, and everyone had to reverse course.

In my opinion, not having to remember passwords allows you to have so much more security against attacks that are actually likely to affect you (database leaks, rainbow table attacks, dictionary-based cracking methods, etc.) that it is well worth the trade-off of having to secure your piece of paper. A modern password manager is another good variant of this method.

Re: Write your passwords down (2010)

#48
I do something similar, but instead of writing it down I keep a flash drive in my wallet that is encrypted. It also contains copies of important documents. I backup the encrypted files in many locations. I still use the browser password manager though because I'm lazy. Fingers crossed.

Re: Write your passwords down (2010)

#50
post #24

What do you do if some website requires you to change your password for some reason? Of course you could use an alternate method - like reading vertically instead of diagonally for that one website - but now you need to remember how many passwords each site has made you generate.

Iterate a pre/suffix number? I've never had a site do any substring historical matching.

> I've never had a site do any substring historical matching.

Would this even be possible if the password is properly stored after salt+hash?

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