Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing

#11

Post by rdtsc » Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 2:24 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #10

rdtsc wrote: post #5

We would love to sell and use Ubuntu based systems to the military and some enterprise but unfortunately there is a slew of certificates that RHEL systems have that Ubuntu don't. Like FIPS 140-2 etc. http://www.redhat.com/solutions/industry/government/certific... Ubuntu is just not on many of those lists. It costs quite a bit of money and effort to get some of them.

Send an email to Mark Shuttleworth as instructed here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1056 Or post a comment. Mark will likely respond personally (he usually does on his blog).

Thanks for the link. I just sent him a message.

Re: Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing

#12

Post by illumin8 » Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 2:29 PM UTC

trotsky wrote: post #2

Check out the source: http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all Specifically, Mark fails to mention that Centos is listed separately from RHEL in the survey, and when added together they come to 41%, more than twice that of Ubuntu. I'm a Canonical fan, I'm typing this on 12.04 right now, but that seems a bit misleading.

It's also misleading because he talks about "large scale enterprise workloads," when he really should mention that their marketshare is almost entirely Linux desktop workstations. Most server workloads are entirely RHEL and CentOS.

Re: Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing

#13

Post by cs702 » Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 2:46 PM UTC

illumin8 wrote: post #12

trotsky wrote: post #2

Check out the source: http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all Specifically, Mark fails to mention that Centos is listed separately from RHEL in the survey, and when added together they come to 41%, more than twice that of Ubuntu. I'm a Canonical fan, I'm typing this on 12.04 right now, but that seems a bit misleading.

It's also misleading because he talks about "large scale enterprise workloads," when he really should mention that their marketshare is almost entirely Linux desktop workstations. Most server workloads are entirely RHEL and CentOS.

Source data?

Re: Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing

#14

Post by einhverfr » Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 2:49 PM UTC

agwa wrote: post #9

cs702 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find the post misleading at all: it points to a meaningful shift in OS adoption. See Mark's response here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1072#comment-394295

Mark's response is kind of bogus: it's true that Fedora shouldn't be lumped with RHEL unless you lump Debian with Ubuntu, but you can't say this for CentOS. It's literally RHEL with all the branding removed (and no support from RedHat). However, the graph does point to a decline in the willingness to pay lots of money for a server Linux distro, which is an interesting trend.

Is it just a question of paying lots of money for a distro? Or is it a question of the market decentralizing, and so vendor-centric solutions doing increasingly poorly?

BTW, this back and forth proves what Heisenberg forcefully argued in his book, "Physics and Philosophy," that theorizing fundamentally involves projecting your own assumptions onto data you see. We all see the same graph. We get to argue to no end as to what it means.

Re: Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing

#15

Post by illumin8 » Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 3:05 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #13

illumin8 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also misleading because he talks about "large scale enterprise workloads," when he really should mention that their marketshare is almost entirely Linux desktop workstations. Most server workloads are entirely RHEL and CentOS.

Source data?

http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all

CentOS and RHEL combined total 41.1% of all websites on the Internet. Ubuntu is a distant 3rd or 4th place behind Debian, depending on whether you count RHEL and CentOS as the same OS, or separate.

Re: Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing

#16

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 3:28 PM UTC

illumin8 wrote: post #15

cs702 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source data?

http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all CentOS and RHEL combined total 41.1% of all websites on the Internet. Ubuntu is a distant 3rd or 4th place behind Debian, depending on whether you count RHEL and CentOS as the same OS, or separate.

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing

#17

Post by koeselitz » Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 3:52 PM UTC

illumin8 wrote: post #15

cs702 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source data?

http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all CentOS and RHEL combined total 41.1% of all websites on the Internet. Ubuntu is a distant 3rd or 4th place behind Debian, depending on whether you count RHEL and CentOS as the same OS, or separate.

That's true, but that page says nothing about desktop statistics and how they compare to server statistics.

Re: Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing

#18

Post by nkassis » Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 3:52 PM UTC

agwa wrote: post #9

cs702 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find the post misleading at all: it points to a meaningful shift in OS adoption. See Mark's response here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1072#comment-394295

Mark's response is kind of bogus: it's true that Fedora shouldn't be lumped with RHEL unless you lump Debian with Ubuntu, but you can't say this for CentOS. It's literally RHEL with all the branding removed (and no support from RedHat). However, the graph does point to a decline in the willingness to pay lots of money for a server Linux distro, which is an interesting trend.

If it's maketshare I assume the graph is in % and it could mean that there is a lot more servers being added and not a decline in installs of RHEL. I can see that with Amazon EC2 instances and other cloud platform Ubuntu would be really popular on those. Buying a RedHat license for you VPS instances might not be worth it but then CentOS vs Ubuntu would be more interesting there.

Re: Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing

#19

Post by cs702 » Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 4:16 PM UTC

rplnt wrote: post #6

jbeatty wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, the Debian ecosystem (of which Ubuntu is primary beneficiary, even though not the primary contributor) is probably about the same size.

As far as I know CentOS is identical to RHEL. Only branding is removed and repositories changed.

There's one other important difference: many enterprise applications are certified for RHEL but not CentOS, therefore IT departments in many large organizations are not allowed by internal policy to use the latter for anything critical.

(FWIW, Ubuntu is always the same exact OS regardless of whether the customer hires Canonical for support or not.)

Re: Ubuntu vs RHEL in enterprise computing

#20

Post by cs702 » Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 4:20 PM UTC

trotsky wrote: post #7

cs702 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find the post misleading at all: it points to a meaningful shift in OS adoption. See Mark's response here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1072#comment-394295

Debian and ubuntu are clearly two substantially different distributions with different packages, policies and goals. As are RHEL and Fedora. The only difference between Centos and RHEL is some branding and whether you paid a license fee.

There's one other important difference between RHEL and CentOS: many enterprise applications are certified for the former but not the latter.

(Many corporations and governmental organizations are not allowed by internal IT policy to use CentOS for critical applications.)