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Compilation of claims/reports of LK-99 replication efforts

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Re: Compilation of claims/reports of LK-99 replication efforts

#51

Post by jstanley »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #46
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #31

LK-99 is a quasi two-dimensional material, and one which seems particularly challenging to synthesize in a bulk polycrystalline three-dimensional mass. Even the original researchers stated that they'd "get it right" only a fraction of the time, and that their famous floating cracked-disc is still impure. I think that there's no reason to assume that negative results right now are conclusive, whereas positive results…

It's a hexagonal lead-apatite crystal, how is that "quasi two-dimensional"?

I don't know anything about lead-apatite crystals, but I know that hexagons are 2-dimensional.

Re: Compilation of claims/reports of LK-99 replication efforts

#52

Post by sgt101 »

duchenne wrote: post #50

I see many comments wondering why the original authors do not reveal their synthesis process. The reason is simple. They work for a private company. Not a university. Not a public lab. They do not reveal the process for the same reason than openAI does not reveal its process. It is because they are sitting on a quadrillion dollars opportunity and they want to grab it. Similarly as OpenAI, many initiatives are trying…

I understood that they have disclosed the process, and are actively advising some of the groups to support replication.

However, they acknowledge that the process is difficult to get right and claim that they have had to run it many times to get the results that they are claiming.

I don't have any clue about materials science, but I can imagine why this would be the case.

Re: Compilation of claims/reports of LK-99 replication efforts

#53

Post by drsopp »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #36
WJW wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magnetic levitation can't be done with normal magnets alone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnshaw%27s_theorem TL;DR: Normal magnets have two poles, and will try to flip themselves around to achieve a lower energy state. You cannot levitate a normal magnet on another magnet without mechanical stabilization. Superconducting materials actively repel all magnetic field lines and can achieve levitation without external…

> Magnetic levitation can't be done with normal magnets alone Technically it can be done with an array of magnets with opposing polarities. Without more details from on this video's source and legitimacy, one could argue that an array of magnets is hiding under the 'single magnet' cover plate. I am not saying this is a hoax, but as exciting as this seems we just have to wait it out for more replication publications t…

> Technically it can be done with an array of magnets with opposing polarities

How?

Re: Compilation of claims/reports of LK-99 replication efforts

#54

Post by sgt101 »

vhiremath4 wrote: post #28

It’s interesting to notice all unofficial institutions (bottom table) have a higher outcome of partial success. Unless the more legitimate labs are less capable, you have to wonder whether anything outside of an accredited institution can be trusted at all at this point. My guess is the allure of hype (more followers / engagement) is too strong for personal gain.

It may be the opposite.

If you are at a national lab and replicate this you would have to do so with a very high level of detail and diligence before disclosing to the press. I am pretty sure that every PI of every lab will be demanding that all process and material is submitted to them and then going over it with a fine tooth comb before putting their name to it.

The private folks have much less to lose, as well as (possibly) more to gain.

Re: Compilation of claims/reports of LK-99 replication efforts

#55

Post by hoseja »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #36
WJW wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magnetic levitation can't be done with normal magnets alone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnshaw%27s_theorem TL;DR: Normal magnets have two poles, and will try to flip themselves around to achieve a lower energy state. You cannot levitate a normal magnet on another magnet without mechanical stabilization. Superconducting materials actively repel all magnetic field lines and can achieve levitation without external…

> Magnetic levitation can't be done with normal magnets alone Technically it can be done with an array of magnets with opposing polarities. Without more details from on this video's source and legitimacy, one could argue that an array of magnets is hiding under the 'single magnet' cover plate. I am not saying this is a hoax, but as exciting as this seems we just have to wait it out for more replication publications t…

No, it mathematically cannot be done with any combination of permanent magnets.

Re: Compilation of claims/reports of LK-99 replication efforts

#57

Post by XorNot »

kzrdude wrote: post #26
stavros wrote: post #9

So basically is looking like mostly a no? The replications haven't been encouraging so far.

It could just be hard to make this material. The only thing we need is solid evidence that it's superconducting. If anyone has a stone that's superconducting at room temperature, then we know it's out there, it's possible to make it. It doesn't matter so much how it was made. If it exists, that's a great step in itself, isn't it?

Yes, but keep in mind that showing superconductivity on very small samples is hard. You never actually measure 0 resistance - you measure a resistance at the limit of your equipment sensitivity.

The smaller the sample, the smaller the resistance is even if it's not superconducting, and all sorts of other effects come into play - i.e. your wires and leads have a resistance you need to account for, parasitic inductance and capacitance climbs etc.

Re: Compilation of claims/reports of LK-99 replication efforts

#58

Post by bhouston »

duchenne wrote: post #50

I see many comments wondering why the original authors do not reveal their synthesis process. The reason is simple. They work for a private company. Not a university. Not a public lab. They do not reveal the process for the same reason than openAI does not reveal its process. It is because they are sitting on a quadrillion dollars opportunity and they want to grab it. Similarly as OpenAI, many initiatives are trying…

The lab has a patent though which a lows for disclosure while also profiting from it. Thus I am not totally convinced of your claims.

Re: Compilation of claims/reports of LK-99 replication efforts

#59

Post by DoingIsLearning »

drsopp wrote: post #53
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Magnetic levitation can't be done with normal magnets alone Technically it can be done with an array of magnets with opposing polarities. Without more details from on this video's source and legitimacy, one could argue that an array of magnets is hiding under the 'single magnet' cover plate. I am not saying this is a hoax, but as exciting as this seems we just have to wait it out for more replication publications t…

> Technically it can be done with an array of magnets with opposing polarities How?

An example of Pyrolytic Carbon levitating on top of a 2x2 matrix of magnets. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetism#/media/File:Diama...

Re: Compilation of claims/reports of LK-99 replication efforts

#60

Post by ajmurmann »

f6v wrote: post #35
mergejoin wrote: post #10

this video sent by one of the original authors to the NY Times is the most significant peace of evidence to me: https://vp.nyt.com/video/2023/08/03/110377_1_03superconducto...

Suppose they have a room temp superconductor(even if it’s not pure). What’s stopping them from revealing the process? It seems like the way they describe it is extremely hard to reproduce. So, are they trying to figure out how to make the most money off it? What else could it be?

The steps are public. Famously the catgirl-boyfriend in Russia ignored them and came up with alternative steps to reproduce on their kitchen counter. However, it's very hard to get right and the original authors also needed many attempts and still had impurities.
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