Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that antitrust is too reactive, especially in tech, but when it hits the real world your proposed solution would just lead to a new Byzantine maze like our current tax code. We'd get a whole new industry built up around helping corporations to technically stay under the thresholds by exploiting loopholes (and another industry for lobbying for those loopholes to be expanded).
This could be used as a criticism of literally any law of any kind.
The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September
311–320 of 351 posts
Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September
#312I appreciate the passion Matt Stoller brings to antitrust issues but his analyses are not good on the economics, to say the very least. I agree that some of google’s conduct is very questionable. It’s not obvious to me that paying to be the default search product is pro-competitive. On the other hand, the case that Google is going to make (and which I think is going to be really hard for the government to overcome) i…
So I tried to read Matt on antitrust (though it turns out we share some of the same views), but once you get beyond the "forcefulness", everything only gets worse in my experience.
It's a lot of bloviation, and when you get into the details, he often will, charitably, take interesting interpretations of the actual opinions and views of courts and others, especially when they disagree with his view. Once I read enough to have a sense of continuity (IE how did claims/views/predictions turn out), I ended up giving up my subscription because i just couldn't read it anymore. There are those who are much better at representing what's going on as a whole in a thing, even when they have a point of view and share it. Even when it's a point of view i think is totally wrongheaded. It's not as passionate, for sure, but I find it more useful and enjoyable in the end, whether i agree or not.
In Matt's case, let's take this one: "Judge Mehta tossed these claims, saying that services like Yelp and Expedia aren’t general search engines and are therefore not in the same market as Google. It was a highly technical and annoying way to read certain legal questions, but bringing an antitrust case has become virtually impossible unless it’s done perfectly."
You'll note that Matt does what he often does here - when he can't explain why he's right, things become more abstract - there aren't any examples of how it was "highly technical" or "annoying" or what "certain legal questions" are. Not a single example anywhere to be found. No example or data that backs up that it is "virtually impossible" to bring antitrust cases unless they are "done perfectly".
Nope, just some abstract complaint and throwaway language about how, you know, whatever he said in the last newsletter about how this part was gonna be a slam dunk or whatever is really right, it's just, you know, "highly technical" things got in the way.
Which ones?
Oh, well, you wouldn't know them, they live in Canada, and only visit in the summer.
Let's look at what actually happened here: No, the judge did not throw the claims out because they aren't general search engines. He threw it out because he felt the plaintiffs were way short on the evidence, because they rely entirely on an expert who cites no evidence himself, only makes up theories. This sounds like an exaggerated opinion of what happened, but it's not :)
See page 46 of the opinion.
"The court agrees with Google’s second argument. Plaintiffs’ theory of anticompetitive harm rests on a multi-linked causal sequence that relies not on evidence but almost entirely on the opinion and speculation of its expert, Professor Jonathan Baker. Plaintiffs cite Professor Baker’s report for the following propositions:
Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
Essentially none of the issues you cite are antitrust issues. You could be right or wrong on the merits but they won’t be part of this case about the monopolization of the search market. (There are really important antitrust issues in the ad exchange but that isn’t the case the government brought !)
Sorry, but in any other market for goods, being the main supplier, the biggest supply-side brokerage, the biggest exchange, and the biggest demand-side brokerage would be considered a blatant antitrust violation. Somehow, Google thinks they can get away with it in ads.
To me that looks like an actual antitrust violation but the DoJ and FTC aren’t investigating bc they are obsessing about “big tech” uselessly and bringing bad cases they are going to lose!
If you want your regulators to actually do something about a lack of competition in the US economy (which they really should be doing!) there are a ton of markets worth investigating before they waste their time on this loser of a case.
Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-... Apple is pretty clearly blocking Google (or any other Android app developer) from implementing this functionality and greatly benefits from it. Particularly relevant for the age demographic this thread originally referenced.
> Apple is pretty clearly blocking Google (or any other Android app developer) from implementing this functionality What functionality? Give some concrete examples.
Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apple is pretty clearly blocking Google (or any other Android app developer) from implementing this functionality What functionality? Give some concrete examples.
High res photos is the most egregious example.
Try again.
Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
High res photos is the most egregious example.
That's an issue with the MMS standard. Try again.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/27/22406303/imessage-android...
Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's legal in the US to have an awesome product that monopolizes the market as long as it wins on it's own merits. The government is claiming that the search market is being monopolized, not by having the best results, but by paying $45 billion dollars/year to various browser suppliers to make Google the default browser. That's the illegal act. > "Essentially, Google has bought up all of the shelf space where search…
>> The government is claiming that the search market is being monopolized, not by having the best results, but by paying $45 billion dollars/year to various browser suppliers to make Google the default browser. That's the illegal act. And google is going to say correctly that consumers are free to switch search engines. They are free to enter “bing.com” in google chrome and it will take them right where they want to…
Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's an issue with the MMS standard. Try again.
Correct, the issue is that Apple doesn't support interoperability with iMessage or a modern standard like RCS. The EU is concerned enough to address this with a regulatory apparatus that the US lacks. https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/27/22406303/imessage-android...
Sorry, but Google's proprietary closed source fork of RCS is not any kind of "standard".
> Google's version of RCS—the one promoted on the website with Google-exclusive features like optional encryption—is definitely proprietary, by the way. If this is supposed to be a standard, there's no way for a third-party to use Google's RCS APIs right now. Some messaging apps, like Beeper, have asked Google about integrating RCS and were told there's no public RCS API and no plans to build one.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs...
Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September
#319Antitrust laws are too reactive. We need proactive laws that break up companies if they grow beyond a certain size criteria. Ideally, the criteria would be aggressive enough to kill large corporations leaving behind only small to medium-sized businesses. The result would be markets with increased competition, more innovation, lower prices, more options for employment and self-employment, and the elimination of Big Co…
Which is what the Sherman Act says:
"Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other per- son or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine not exceeding $100,000,000 if a corporation, or, if any other person, $1,000,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding 10 years, or by both said punishments, in the discretion of the court."
It hasn't been rigorously enforced since the 1960s, but the Department of Justice does have the option of enforcing it as written.
Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
Correct, the issue is that Apple doesn't support interoperability with iMessage or a modern standard like RCS. The EU is concerned enough to address this with a regulatory apparatus that the US lacks. https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/27/22406303/imessage-android...
> Apple doesn't support interoperability with iMessage or a modern standard like RCS. Sorry, but Google's proprietary closed source fork of RCS is not any kind of "standard". > Google's version of RCS—the one promoted on the website with Google-exclusive features like optional encryption—is definitely proprietary, by the way. If this is supposed to be a standard, there's no way for a third-party to use Google's RCS A…