Earlier quoted context omitted.
And what do you think would happen then?
Freedom.
Uh huh, nice word. And could you put some details around that, some specifics? What would our society look like, in your estimation, without regulation?
If You Want a Car This Heavy, You Should Pay Through the Nose
31–40 of 158 posts
Re: If You Want a Car This Heavy, You Should Pay Through the Nose
#32this is America. any attempt at this sort of taxation is doa, even as far backs as the 70s. It's like " it worked in Norway (or other small, liberal, or collectivist or highly authoritarian country), it can work America too" um un no.
What does "work" mean?
Any time someone suggests a tax that kind of, sort of, might be, correlated with energy efficiency, it is violating what should be the prime directive of climate change - every gram of CO2 emitted should be treated equally.
Doing studies on the environmental impact of Hummer EVs is missing the forest for the trees.
The minute you establish any category of energy usage that is more pure, more sanctified per unit mass of CO2 output, the invisible hand of the market will shift as much as possible into that loophole, until it is so obscene it can't be ignored. Hummer EVs are just one example.
Focusing on weight is just starting a new cycle of missing the point. My motorcycle is really light, so does that mean it's the most efficient method of transport? Are semi-trailers used because truckers like wasting money?
The counter argument remains: "we must do something...and this is something". I don't need to see that again, but if you have the urge - do you really believe it? Can we achieve any goal through lying about the fundamental criterion of success, by micromanaging out of ignorance?
Everything done to fight climate change is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic to avoid thinking about the insurmountable political task of raising fuel taxes enough to make a difference.
If you have given up, then there is nothing left but social justice and mitigation for poor countries affected by climate change. So own it. Be clear about it.
Re: If You Want a Car This Heavy, You Should Pay Through the Nose
#33Let's scale licensing requirements with weight instead. Require regular re-testing for all but the most basic class license.
Regular re-testing means those driving heavier (read: more dangerous) vehicles would have to maintain competency rather than be punished in proportion to the consequences of their incompetency. The usual moral qualms about revoking licensing would be somewhat side-stepped as well since you could at least knock a bad driver down to the basic class and reduce the damage they're likely to do.
Re: If You Want a Car This Heavy, You Should Pay Through the Nose
#34Agreed, all road taxes should be based on weight and miles driven. Make sure that it is non-linear, since road damage and weight aren't linear. And make sure that it affects fuel delivery trucks in the same way that it affects other heavy vehicles. Anything else would be plainly unfair.
Non-linear is an understatement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law
Re: If You Want a Car This Heavy, You Should Pay Through the Nose
#35At a hefty 3.5T / 7,000 lbs, the Rivians* aren't much lighter than an E-Hummer (4.5T / 9,000 lbs). Isn't road wear non-linear, with heavy vehicles doing disproportionate damage compared to lighter ones? Ever noticed how the trucker lanes on the highway are the first to get potholes? The taxpayers shouldn't be forced to subsidize luxury toys. Let the owners pay a fair amount relative to the strain they're adding to th…
> Isn't road wear non-linear, with heavy vehicles doing disproportionate damage compared to lighter ones? This is correct, and it's why your conclusion is nonsensical. No one is subsidizing luxury toys. The amount of damage done to roads by an e-Hummer or Rivian is mildly above that of, say, a Camry. Both do hundreds of times less damage than an 18-wheeler. The amount of damage done to a road by a passenger sedan is…
> the truckers will all go bankrupt
I still think the alternative to pay per weight*distance is good - trucks should be last-mile delivery, not the primary source of transportation for goods in North America. Cargo trains are much better in many different dimensions, even more-so if they're electrified (Though, that's an impossibility in this market)
Re: If You Want a Car This Heavy, You Should Pay Through the Nose
#36It makes total sense to me, for everyone that got screwed out of home ownership because of prices skyrocketing, some of them didn't go homeless. The ones that bought a large truck and an RV (to live in full time) need to pay. That should make them go fully homeless.
Re: If You Want a Car This Heavy, You Should Pay Through the Nose
#37America is not a nation of light vehicles, and that is largely due to the MPG standards that have been legislated for decades. An "out" was given based on vehicle weight, with heavier vehicles not having to meet as high a standard as lighter ones. Which is part of why trucks have gotten so huge over the past few decades.
This. Ignorant dweebs like the type who write for Slate fail to understand that the growing size of vehicles is not driven by demand, it's driven by EPA policy.
Re: If You Want a Car This Heavy, You Should Pay Through the Nose
#38Agreed, all road taxes should be based on weight and miles driven. Make sure that it is non-linear, since road damage and weight aren't linear. And make sure that it affects fuel delivery trucks in the same way that it affects other heavy vehicles. Anything else would be plainly unfair.
Here in Norway we do have a weight tax. It's linear for normal cars[1] and paid once, for heavier vehicles it's yearly and quite non-linear[2].
edit: doing a quick fit, it seems to just be quadratic with weight though, while damage goes more like the fourth power as noted in sibling comment.
As for miles driven, AFAIK there's nothing direct non-linear there, just some duty and taxes on the fuel.
[1]: https://www.skatteetaten.no/person/avgifter/bil/importere/hv...
Re: If You Want a Car This Heavy, You Should Pay Through the Nose
#39At a hefty 3.5T / 7,000 lbs, the Rivians* aren't much lighter than an E-Hummer (4.5T / 9,000 lbs). Isn't road wear non-linear, with heavy vehicles doing disproportionate damage compared to lighter ones? Ever noticed how the trucker lanes on the highway are the first to get potholes? The taxpayers shouldn't be forced to subsidize luxury toys. Let the owners pay a fair amount relative to the strain they're adding to th…
[deleted]
Re: If You Want a Car This Heavy, You Should Pay Through the Nose
#40Agreed, all road taxes should be based on weight and miles driven. Make sure that it is non-linear, since road damage and weight aren't linear. And make sure that it affects fuel delivery trucks in the same way that it affects other heavy vehicles. Anything else would be plainly unfair.
Impose a tax on tires based on their mass.