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I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

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Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#391

Post by idopmstuff »

basisword wrote: post #164
Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

This is the place where I'm really hopeful that AI can help people sooner rather than later. A lot of these diagnoses just involve large-scale, complex pattern matching - the problem is that docs don't know what pattern to look for because the diagnoses are rare, and they're often not asking the right questions for the same reason. I knew someone who had an extremely rare genetic disorder (her family represents about half the people diagnosed) and just by sheer, dumb luck, her doctor happened to know the single doctor at NIH who specialized in it.

It's a really ideal use case for AI - not only figuring these things out but also doing things like clinical trial and research matching.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#392

Post by kzrdude »

pfisherman wrote: post #389
basisword wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

One thing that I think people need to understand is the distinction between science and the practice of medicine. The practice of medicine is not science. The practice of medicine can be informed by science - to a degree that is almost entirely up to the practitioner. ; but it remains more art than science. The distinction is similar to that between an aviation maintenance and aerospace engineering. Sometimes doctors…

Do doctors know this? We need to tell them they need to practice at the art, to get better at it.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#393

Post by ekianjo »

Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry.

This is the same thing with doctors for any difficult disease to treat. You will tons of different opinions based on the same facts that are available to them.

It makes you seriously wonder what kind of expertise is that in the end?

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#394

Post by ekianjo »

megablast wrote: post #364
basisword wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

> The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. But this is true for every thing in the planet. Data modelling, computer programming, building, everything. Name something that the unusual is not more complicated and difficult to do. Why would anyone think that it would not be true for the health field?? I think the problem is people think health is magical and everything is known. Because they choose…

> I think the problem is people think health is magical and everything is known.

The problem is most doctors have absolutely no humility and will never admit to not knowing something. I don't see that behavior among engineers.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#395

Post by [deleted] »

ambicapter wrote: post #256
ransom1538 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. " I was so pissed by this I created a way to find experts. People that actually studied the issue, have actual publish papers on the topic. What I found was no one cared. No one wanted "experts" - they want a specialist that is in their network and close. Example of searching for mohs surgury. https://www.opendoctor.io/research/?research_papers=mohs&zip..…

If this is in the US it would make sense that people are really bound by their insurance provider as to who they are allowed to see cheaply.

[deleted]

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#396

Post by Cpoll »

pfisherman wrote: post #389
basisword wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

One thing that I think people need to understand is the distinction between science and the practice of medicine. The practice of medicine is not science. The practice of medicine can be informed by science - to a degree that is almost entirely up to the practitioner. ; but it remains more art than science. The distinction is similar to that between an aviation maintenance and aerospace engineering. Sometimes doctors…

> aviation maintenance and aerospace engineering

Which is which though? As I understand it, aviation maintenance is quite rigorous, systematic, and informed by and taking into account every mistake made in the past.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#397

Post by ralphc »

leptons wrote: post #140
kentonv wrote: post #53

A couple years ago my dentist sold her practice to a new dentist. Before I had an appointment with the new dentist, my wife had an appointment, and he told her she had gum disease with bone loss and needed a deep cleaning and to go on a "periodontal schedule" where she would have to come in every three months instead of six. (Note: My wife and I have different last names and separate insurance, so he wouldn't have kn…

Some dentists are the worst - they're no better than used car salesmen, and sometimes they are worse than that. Just shady and questionable businesses that try to extract the most money possible from you, and in some cases they will lie to do it. I moved cities a few years ago, about an hour south of where I used to live, and I changed my doctor, my mechanic, but I kept my dentist even though it's a 1.5 hour drive in…

Forever is a loooonnnggg time. I liked my dentist and kept going to him, he practiced into his 80s. Turns out he left some packing material in a crown and it rotted out the tooth. The dentist that took over his practice tried to save the tooth but it had to come out and I have an implant in its place.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#398

Post by anigbrowl »

rossdavidh wrote: post #12

At the very end of the article: "This article originally ran in the February 1997 issue of Reader’s Digest." Surely this should be noted in the HN title?

The easiest wya to make this happen is to just write

(1997)

as the entire comment. Dang will usually edit the title whenever he notices that.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#400

Post by janmo »

Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

Same experience when I was a kid. I fell and had a milk teeth that was completely lose. The dentist just said to leave it as is.

It fixed itself as well.

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