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I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

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Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#371
This article names the dentists who got it right, while leaving anonymous those dentists who conspired to commit physical assault by performing unnecessary medical procedures. A factual listing of what each dentist recommended should not incur any legal liability.

Maybe the legal system that makes journalists afraid to name and shame clearly dangerous dentists is part of the problem?

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#372
This reminds me of a classic "scientific vs magical thinking" comparison investigating "woo" such as Feng shui. They set up an apartment identically for a about a dozen different Feng shui experts and recorded their recommendations. They all said wildly different things: "You need your bed facing east", "The bed should face away from the door", "The bed should face so that the morning light isn't blocked", etc... Same variability with the couch, dining table, and so on. Literally nothing was consistent. Both the furniture layout and the justifications given were about as variable as it was possible to get.

I've internalised that little experiment as my "acid test of scientific maturity".

A random example that passes with flying colours is Chemistry: the exact same periodic table is taught in every school in every country. Nobody debates the existence of benzene, or the ability of acids to dissolve metals. There is no "eastern school" competing with the "orthodoxy of the south" or whatever. There is only one chemistry, globally.

A lot of other supposedly "highly scientific" fields fail this test. For example, there was a survey of practising theoretical physicists about the foundations of quantum mechanics, and it turned out that they disagreed on everything. Meanwhile they were all individually convinced that there is consensus, and that they're in agreement with it.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok sample of N = 1, but here it goes. Flossing daily was the single thing that imroved my dental hygiene more than anything else. Brushing, mouthwash, fluoride treatment, gum laser treatment, regular dentist visits, nothing worked. Still had bleeding gum, pain here and there, bad smell, unstopabble tooth decay. In my mid 20-s I started flossing daily (even multiple times when I feel like food is stuck). Really my mou…

just don't use floss with PFAS / microplastics eg Oral B Glide tests at 248,900 ppm / 25% of volume for PFAS

Is there a comprehensive list of the ones with known PFAS content? I'm not finding much except one article with only like 10 listed.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#374

I know my comment is anecdotal but for me it's relevant. I'm 60 years old. Up until about 25 I just listened to dentists. They drill-and-fill and I went along. No longer. In 35 years I've had one problem. I broke a tooth biting on a hard seed in some Indian food. I got a crown for that. A few years later the crown came off. I haven't bothered getting it replaced. I don't have tooth pain. My teeth have not shifted. I…

I felt the same way as you do, and didn't go in until I knew there was a problem... Turns out I had quite a few hidden cavities, and at least a couple were severe enough to be worried about. I found myself wishing I'd gone in at least once in a while for a checkup, even if I didn't actually get a cleaning. I'm sure I would have gotten occasional or regular cleanings as well, though, and I'd probably be better off for…

> Turns out I had quite a few hidden cavities

And you know this from any other sources than the dentist you then paid to fix it?

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#375

If you have an ongoing problem of plaque/tartar build up on your teeth then this BBC article[1] could be a life changer for you. It was for me. After a year of doing it right my gums are now close to perfect. I notice though that neither my hygenist's or my dentist's office has been handing out information about this approach. Not good for business perhaps. I believe this technique works via abrasion so toothpaste is…

So it's just holding the electric brush at 45 degrees against the gum?

Pretty much yes, holding your brush at 45 degrees and following your gum line. I found I could feel and follow my gum line except on my back upper outside molars where I had to turn the brush about 30 degrees up (in the front to back direction). For some reason I can't feel that part of my gums very well. I'm pretty sure your mileage may very.

It's also helpful to have a reliable hygienist check how you're going until you get it right. I'll probably end up going about every six months in any case, with healthy gums. Which is much better than "I would hate to see you lose all your teeth." which is what my hygienist said before I got serious.

Finally, I've only been brush once a day, before bed for two reasons. First to check how well things were going and second, to avoid too much wear and tear on the gums in case it wasn't necessary. As it turned out I'm fine with once a day. The primary way I check between check ups is to floss about once every two weeks. If my gums bleed then it's a sign I'm off track. Before I started this technique my gums would almost always bleed.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

This is very true. I had a SO with severe chronic gastric pain and they got passed around by doctors for years. One jerk wrote "drug seeking behavior" into her file and that made things even worse. Finally someone took her seriously, got imagery done, and discovered surgery was necessary. In US healthcare you have to be your own advocate and be willing to push. The system breaks down if you don't have a routine and o…

I moved from the U.K. to the US and the situation is even worse in the UK. Unless you’re bleeding or have cancer it’s basically “please go away”.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

"The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. " I was so pissed by this I created a way to find experts. People that actually studied the issue, have actual publish papers on the topic. What I found was no one cared. No one wanted "experts" - they want a specialist that is in their network and close. Example of searching for mohs surgury. https://www.opendoctor.io/research/?research_papers=mohs&zip..…

I've often been struck dumb by the passive nature of so many people when facing health problems. My dad had multiple myeloma and was satisfied with local hosp. Nope. Made him go to Yale and the Dana Farber. He got the best care possible.

I struggled with back pain and told to go to a neurologist and informed my GP where I would and wouldn't go. The doc I was referred to was a no-go since I know him personally and he's a lying piece of shit in his personal life, I'm not trusting him with my back! Docs could NOT understand. "But he's so nice." Screw that.

Time and again, family and friends settle. I understand the insurance component, but even then, can you not find better?

And thank you for your work. It's very cool.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#378
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole fear of being labeled a "conspiracy nut" for exploring less trodden paths needs to end. Calling people conspiracy nuts for looking behind curtains they shouldn't was a good tactic by various entities to cover up secrets and misdeeds, but it has spilled over into the non political arena and poisoned everything. Humans don't have a full understanding of everything, and in fact it's quite the opposite, in tha…

The earth is not 6000 years old God didn’t do it Gravity is the curvature of spacetime Things are not attracted to the planet through static electricity Covid is real Vaccines work Rich mother fuckers do NOT have our best interests at heart Intelligent aliens have not visited earth People are called conspiracy nuts for being conspiracy nuts. Not for “taking less trodden paths”. Getting real tired of the HNs new “wahh…

Add to that list, some version of the lab leak theory is plausible, but there was an attempt to make it sound like a conspiracy theory.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#379
post #349

My experience with dentists in France has always been good, but as I moved to the US I noticed that suddenly I was having cavities, suddenly floss was important (when studies say that they don't add any value), suddenly I had to take X-rays every 6 months, suddenly I was being pushed on doing aesthetic changes, suddenly I was seeing insane bills that had no connection with the service I was getting. I'm convinced tha…

How would floss not add any value? It literally removes food particles that otherwise would feed bacteria that cause cavities and bad breath.

It was hard to take the rest of your comment seriously after that, and only reinforces the “europeans have bad teeth” stereotype.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very true. I had a SO with severe chronic gastric pain and they got passed around by doctors for years. One jerk wrote "drug seeking behavior" into her file and that made things even worse. Finally someone took her seriously, got imagery done, and discovered surgery was necessary. In US healthcare you have to be your own advocate and be willing to push. The system breaks down if you don't have a routine and o…

That sounds very much like someone I know. She had pain in her stomach that doctors in the US just refused to examine in depth. One prescribed her pain-killers and another steroid. She asked more tests but they declined. Her father is a doctor in India and when she finally told him (after a few months of suffering) about her ordeal, he asked her to come immediately to India. After some reluctance, she flew down, and…

100%. I’m in India now after years in the US. Indian doctors I’ve interacted with (for my kid) are just better at empathy and analysis.

It may be because they see a wider range of illnesses and this empathy/awareness might not work well with the patients are of varying ethnicity and race but they’re pretty good if you look past the exterior - shabby offices, gruff manner.

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