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I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

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Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#291
Wrote Hacking Healthcare, healthcare executive for 20+ years...

About 10 years into my career we had already been managing some very large hospital groups but ended up with a mangement contract for a diverse group health system that through accidents of history including some dental clinics. ~50 suites across several sites/brands. I had had some exposure to dental clinics and generally had not been impressed but not overly concerned either.

First meeting we had with the senior staff across the clinics set my hair on fire. It was one of the most callous, fraudulent and shocking things I had ever seen in my career. Dentistry does not have a notion or ethical obligation of "first do no harm...". The entire agenda of the strategy setting meeting was how to trick "patients" into unecessary procedures, generally defraud insurance companies (especially breaking things across many visits that could easily be done in one) and every other deceptive way to inflate profit at "patient" expense that could be conceived. There were quotas for procedures, something unimaginable and defacto illegal in a healthcare setting. Needless to say we divested the dental clinics as soon as possible. I came to find in later years that those modes of operation are more or less commonplace in the industry.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#292

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

1000% they have optimized for the things that they see often and most of the times they don't even consider what else could be going on (even if they maybe know about it). Ultimately it's on you to understand what they are saying and to decide if what they're saying makes sense. When in doubt you should never ever be afraid to ask for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and so on opinion.

Don't even get me started on diseases where we have medication that sort of works with tons of side effect where no significant progress has been made for decades. If you're alergic to the said medication or your side effects make it a no go, tough luck!

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#293

This article was run in 1997. It reads exactly like what a modern dental experience is. If dentists want to start drilling, capping, or pulling. Go get a second opinion. I was referred to the Otho within my dentists office to look at my wisdom teeth. I was not in pain, they weren’t impacted, instead I was told “It’s a standard practice just to check.” It was supposed to be a consultation, but the ortho wanted to rip…

> get a second opinion This guy got 50 opinions and 12 of the dentists gave reasonable treatment plans. At least one dentist said there was nothing wrong. I’m not sure two opinions is enough really.

If anything it seems the only ones to trust are the students.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#294
post #72

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

[flagged]

I read a book by psychiatrist, can't remember it's name now... he was saying, I explained the serotonin reuptake process to one of my patients, then the patient said... great, but how do you know that this applies to me personally?... he said I couldn't respond.

Also, there are many antidepressants... I don't think there is a solid ground for why they describe a specific one for certain patients.

Check these too:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%...

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%...

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now imagine doing this on Canadian healthcare, having to wait months or years for each appointment, and nowadays they try to talk you into MAID to save resources…

I know HN is a privileged place but people should recognize that the “worst case” of Canadian/European healthcare wait times is already the reality for many if not most Americans.. You shouldn’t base your understanding of American health care on personal experience if you work for a big company that provides a nice health insurance plan.

I have jank government insurance and this is not true. When I got out of prison and had no insurance I went to the city's clinics. Wait times have never been an issue (at most was two weeks for specialist). The doctors in the clinic were also friggin amazing doctors/people. I had a ton of shame around getting out of prison, some much shame about needing to get tests ran for HIV/Hep from being in prison but they were so good about it all (all came out negative so woohoo).

Now dentists...when we had money we went to a family friend. He still totally f'd us and did unnecessary work. It's only now that I have a cash only country dentist that I trust my dentist again. Crazy part is the cash only dentist ends up being cheaper than my previous copay/premiums insurance dentists.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very true. I had a SO with severe chronic gastric pain and they got passed around by doctors for years. One jerk wrote "drug seeking behavior" into her file and that made things even worse. Finally someone took her seriously, got imagery done, and discovered surgery was necessary. In US healthcare you have to be your own advocate and be willing to push. The system breaks down if you don't have a routine and o…

Now imagine doing this on Canadian healthcare, having to wait months or years for each appointment, and nowadays they try to talk you into MAID to save resources…

Absolutely true, and that is if you even have a family doctor to refer you to a specialist. For those who had the luck to lose their family doctor (mine through retirement), it is impossible to find one that takes new patients. Many retired during covid, many more only work part time. The Canadian health care is a disaster at this point, and those who have a family doctor have no clue how awful this is.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#297
post #266
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Curious why you feel autism is the most legit here when it's the one that's been expanded on the most due to the DSM. They all make statistical sense to me given the rising acceptance of mental health being a real thing in the first place, no longer dismissed as "just work harder".

I could be wrong. There has been an uptick in all of them, but I thought autism had less of an uptick, and there have been new biological environmental factors that may make autism something from birth, whether heritable or not.

Whereas something like, say, gender dysphoria has positively exploded in diagnoses. It’s a worrying disorder, which (eg unlike autism) studies show leads 30-50% to attempt suicide. So any increase in its prevalence to 5% of the emerging US population is worrying. If this was, say, a coronavirus with that kind of risk to life, we’d all be worried.

I want to be clear - I am not saying that the symptoms aren’t real and that “this is all in their head”, or that we need “conversion therapy” or something. I an saying the major systemic problems are upstream and by changing THE SYSTEM we will reduce the incidence instead of only focusing on medical interventions downstream as bandaids.

As an analogy — if we addressed antibiotic overuse on factory farms and sugar and high fructose corn syrup and pink slime, fast foods etc. we could address the epidemics of obesity and diabetes, including in children. But instead we focus on inventing new ways to medicate them!

And when the coronavirus comes around, instead of recognizing that these very same factors (obesity and diabtetes) are highly correlated with morbidity and mortality with that virus, we once again look for vaccines against the virus and once it subsides we continue to IGNORE all the systemic upstream factors in the underlying chronic epidemics in USA.

Autism could very well be yet another one, maybe it is like autoimmune diseases that are related to microplastics, maybe they affect hormones like aestrogen and testosterone. We need to LOOK UPSTREAM.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#298
post #72

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

[flagged]

I know at least a handful of people that ended up gaining weight and developing diabetes (or they are close to diabetes) as a result of antidepressants. It's super depressing: you are trying to cure one thing and trigger another one. This is double bad in cases where you didn't need the pills in the first place.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#299
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I read a book by psychiatrist, can't remember it's name now... he was saying, I explained the serotonin reuptake process to one of my patients, then the patient said... great, but how do you know that this applies to me personally?... he said I couldn't respond. Also, there are many antidepressants... I don't think there is a solid ground for why they describe a specific one for certain patients. Check these too: htt…

Normally they try multiple antidepressants or combos until one works. Nobody tells you about the side effects - especially long term side effects
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