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I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

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Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#121

Post by steveBK123 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #64
xyzelement wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for you figuring this out. I always point out to my wife that an expert with a financial benefit in the advice they are giving you is potentially more dangerous than an amateur. If you are a dentist, "more dentistry" is likely to resonate with them as a solution, especially if that means they charge for doing the work. No different than if you ask a software developer if you should hire them to automate some pro…

I think the “do your own research” label conflates two categories: people who are shopping for a comforting answer, and people who want to be informed and make conscious decisions. I don’t have to be a dental expert to know that something isn’t adding up and to seek a second opinion.

It strikes me as unfortunate that for a lot of things like home repairs/renovations its pretty normal to get 3+ different opinions/bids.. but for our health its usually your regular doctor, and at most a 2nd opinion in some cases.

We'll make life changing decisions based on the opinion/advice of 1 individual, while shopping around on a home project or car repair that's +/- $5k.

It seems again like a combination of shortage of medical workers and the indirect nature of medical payment. If I knew up front that walking in and getting 3 medical opinions would cost me X, and I didn't need any pre-approval from insurance, or risk denials.. I'd just go do it more. But the system is so opaque that I don't know I can get those answers readily, or believe the numbers are real and won't result in random bills later.

Further, the next step after figuring out the cost of getting options would then e getting a quote for the actual resulting medical care recommends is opaque due to differing payment %s & co-pays by procedure, etc.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#122

Post by ilaksh »

EMM_386 wrote: post #69

I've been told I'd have to have my wisdom teeth extracted by every dentist I've seen. Over 10 of them as I've moved around. Oral surgeons saying the same thing. The first one to recommend this was 35 years ago . I still have them, and the last dentist I saw says they are in good shape. The first one ever to tell me this. I've never had an issue with them. Go figure.

I had a problem with a single wisdom tooth (around 12 years ago? don't remember). I don't remember but I think it was starting to be impacted or something. It was quite sore and obviously needed to be removed. I don't remember the cost but it was something I could just manage to afford at the time (probably around $500 or something including the cleaning).

The dentist said I really needed to have the other three removed also. I can't remember why exactly they claimed I needed to do that. But it ballooned the cost up well over $1000 (maybe $1500, don't remember). When I said no the second time, they had the very pretty receptionist (/model?) come into the room and sit right next time me and explain again why I needed to have them out.

All told, I had to explain at least three times how I was definitely too broke to consider removing the other teeth. They didn't believe me and even asked again what my job was or something (was a low-paying job).

The other wisdom teeth never caused a problem like that one I had removed. Or any other problem that I am aware of. I actually haven't been to the dentist since. Not aware of any teeth falling out or anything obvious like pain. I think it would be good to get them cleaned one of these days though.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#123

Post by kccqzy »

microtonal wrote: post #62
leoqa wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience, got up sold on more frequent cleanings and they always found something to iterate on. I took their offer once to fill a “potential infection” and then recognized the pattern. They probably legitimately think the tooth may decay further - it probably won’t and you probably don’t need pre-emptive correction but they make more money and “fix” the problem for you so they may not see the ethica…

Frequent cleanings are nice though. As an avid tea drinker it's nice to have white teeth again once or twice a year. The insurance covers most of the cost, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

What? My dentist told me teeth whitening is not part of regular cleaning, and I'd pay extra for whitening.

I also drink a lot of tea and coffee, and unless I pay extra, I don't get any whitening.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#124

Post by joe5150 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #76
Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

Did you consider seeing a doctor? Dentists are sort of doctors, but MDs with teeth specialties could be better, I’m sure your GP could have given you a rec. (Edit: it turns out orthodontist is not like ophthalmologist).

All of the orthodontists I quickly searched in my area have DMDs from dental schools.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#125

Post by mortenjorck »

rossdavidh wrote: post #12

At the very end of the article: "This article originally ran in the February 1997 issue of Reader’s Digest." Surely this should be noted in the HN title?

Wow, seeing this headline brought back a faint memory of reading a similar story in a Reader’s Digest at my grandparents’ house decades ago. Apparently it’s the same story!

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#126

Post by whack »

I've had a similar experience with tax preparers. I once decided to hire two different tax preparers, both of whom had good reviews and strong credentials. I naively assumed that I would spend an hour tops comparing the two returns side-by-side, and examining any small differences between them.

What ended up happening was that both returns were so dramatically different, along many different dimensions. It took me nearly 40 hours to catalog all the different decisions made by each preparer, and which of the two decisions is the better one. Through this exercise, I realized that both preparers had made some major errors - and by reconciling them, I ended up saving more than $10,000, while also making my tax returns more resilient if audited.

I'm convinced that for any non-trivial decision in any field, the best way to make them is to hire multiple independent professionals, and cross-check their independent recommendations. And yes, this applies to software engineers as well.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#127

Post by heavenlyblue »

umvi wrote: post #95
Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

It's not just the dental industry that's like this. A lot of medicine is subjective, and a lot of doctors have poor "debugging" skills and do the equivalent of print statements to try to diagnose an issue (guess and check).

print statements are not a bad practice

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#128

Post by pierat »

Unfortunately I have an anecdote, but is also a concern.

I had a tooth pulled. Could have been a root canal, but whatever. (Insert sob story)

The real problem was that this dentistry was quietly affiliated to the local university's dental school. Many of the students end up here. The problem, is that the dentistry IS NOT UPFRONT this is a teaching business, and not actual professionals.

I found it out when I was digging through unrelated records in GIS, and found they were legally registered as a school. Dug deeper, and they're basically misrepresenting and lying to the public.

So yeah, keep this scam in mind as well. (I call it a scam cause I wasn't getting student rates, and they did their damndest to hide that.)

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#129

Post by bluescrn »

unshavedyak wrote: post #27
bluescrn wrote: post #16

'While you've got good insurance, we can upgrade all your teeth now, before they get bad'? There may be stereotypes about the British having bad teeth, but I've never had a dentist try to milk my wallet like that despite a poor diet having done a fair bit of damage over the years. Dentistry here seems much more about doing the minimum necessary work to save teeth and relieve pain. The thought of getting crowns done e…

> I've only had one done, and it wasn't a fun experience - it's something I see as a last resort to save a tooth, certainly not something I'd want to go through for cosmetic improvements. What was "unfun" about it? I'm familiar with what they are, but not the pain-points (in the non-literal sense lol) of getting them.

In my case, it was just discomfort rather than pain, the worst bit was having a metal 'temporary crown' that felt/tasted uncomfortable and wouldn't stay in place over the mostly-drilled-away tooth for a week or more while the crown was being manufactured. And I couldn't stop myself from constantly probing it with my tongue. (This was over a decade ago, maybe the process is quicker, or they have better temporary crowns?)

But the tooth had had a root canal done some years before the crown, so there was no nerve to cause pain when/after much of the tooth was drilled away to prepare for the crown. Not sure what the process is if the tooth is healthier/more sensitive to begin with.

End result is good though. Just not something I'd choose to go through it if was mostly cosmetic rather than to save a tooth.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#130

Post by nick__m »

throwaway290 wrote: post #89
Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

Once I had bad pain and went to a dentist, he pulled out a tooth. Later I heard it's absolutely last ditch and replacement teeth are finicky and will make your life much more problematic. Thankfully it's just enough to the side to not be visible so I am getting away without one. (Though I think it's also problematic long term, because remaining teeth would shift.) Never again to trust a dentist, no matter if it's a p…

Dental implant while costly are wonderful if you have sufficiently dense jawbone, they feel like a real teeth.

My dentist also told me that tooth extraction is a last-ditch effort. But that come sooner than you would like; after one rounds of antibiotics, if the pain come back but there are no apparent mechanical defect in the tooth yet the roots are blurry on the x-rays, the probability that a root canal treatment would be successful is quite small and extraction followed by an implant is your best bet.

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