The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September • Hacker News Board

Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September

#21

Post by hackernewds » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 5:17 PM UTC

charcircuit wrote: post #5

>Google has maintained this monopoly, the government alleges, not by making a better product, but by locking down everywhere that consumers might be able to find a different search engine option, and making sure they only see Google. Google improves search every year. Internally they have data to back this up. Google doesn't lock down everywhere consumers can learn about a new browser. The most notable being the defa…

Blows my mind that Google is penalized so often, while the clear monopoly is Apple. Heck Apple goes out of its way to break compatibility with Google through restrictions on RCS (iMessage), Pixel buds (or any other OEM), charging cable, no headphone jack and so on.

Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September

#22

Post by hackernewds » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 5:17 PM UTC

dantheman wrote: post #18

account-5 wrote: post #2

Hopefully this is won and followed by similar for all other tech monopolies: Amazon, apple, meta, Microsoft, etc.

Hopefully the government loses.

I would rather give my data to one entity, than thousands of fragmented ones. Some things can only be accomplished at scale, and also risk getting into the wrong hands (re Twitter)

Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September

#23

Post by light_hue_1 » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

lucasfcosta wrote: post #20

I think one argument that’s missing from the article is how that impacts foreign policies. What about competing with foreign giants, for example? China probably won’t break up their large companies, and, in a global market, those can then use their outsized economic power to impose themselves against the counterparts elsewhere. I’m not saying that will necessarily happen, just mentioning an argument I’ve heard quite…

The flip side is that dead giants that dominate the landscape stifle all innovation here and charge expensive rates. Eventually allowing someone else to get much further ahead technically.

Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September

#24

Post by andsoitis » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #15

andsoitis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you communicate anything you want or does Google control what you're able to say (i.e. "control your communications")

There’s different levels of control. I think control means affect how I communicate. I can’t communicate anything I want as chrome blocks certain apps from installing. And gmail blocks some communication. And search filters results from what I want to find. Etc etc. So yes, google controls what I’m able to say.

> I think control means affect how I communicate

Many things affect how I communicate, but that is very different from controlling.

> chrome blocks certain apps from installing

Chrome blocks apps from installing?

> And gmail blocks some communication.

Such as?

Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September

#25

Post by offtwit » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 5:23 PM UTC

It sounds like this is only about google search. How can that be broken up? Or are they just going to get fined many billions of dollars and they lose their right to being the default search engine on iPhones?

Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September

#26

Post by jart » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

hackernewds wrote: post #22

dantheman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully the government loses.

I would rather give my data to one entity, than thousands of fragmented ones. Some things can only be accomplished at scale, and also risk getting into the wrong hands (re Twitter)

If Google gets broken up, Gmail will end up like the PSTN.

Anyone can monitor your location.

Anyone can read your messages.

Anyone can spoof your address.

Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September

#27

Post by pphysch » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

lucasfcosta wrote: post #20

I think one argument that’s missing from the article is how that impacts foreign policies. What about competing with foreign giants, for example? China probably won’t break up their large companies, and, in a global market, those can then use their outsized economic power to impose themselves against the counterparts elsewhere. I’m not saying that will necessarily happen, just mentioning an argument I’ve heard quite…

> What about competing with foreign giants, for example? China probably won’t break up their large companies

ANT Group? Alibaba?

Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September

#28

Post by Retric » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #13

p_j_w wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has over 90% of the desktop OS and Office software markets. It’s impossible to come up with a reasonable definition of monopoly that doesn’t include them in those markets.

They don’t have 90% [0]. They have about 70% of just desktop, but there’s lots of competition with devices since desktops have replacements with tablets and phones and other devices. Also, as the 90s Microsoft case showed, just having a monopoly isn’t bad. It’s the harm caused by having the monopoly. Back in the 90s, Microsoft was found to harm other browsers. [0] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/wo…

Read up on past monopoly busts, you don’t need an overwhelming market share to be broken up. Standard oil was down to 64% and that didn’t save it.

Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September

#29

Post by lumost » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

lucasfcosta wrote: post #20

I think one argument that’s missing from the article is how that impacts foreign policies. What about competing with foreign giants, for example? China probably won’t break up their large companies, and, in a global market, those can then use their outsized economic power to impose themselves against the counterparts elsewhere. I’m not saying that will necessarily happen, just mentioning an argument I’ve heard quite…

There is a weird assumption that Chinese tech corporations are permanently immune to American law. At most, this is an artifact of unidirectional free trade agreements written generations ago.

Similar to Europe, I doubt US regulators would dissolve one giant just to see it replaced by a foreign one. The current status quo that Chinese tech companies can operate in the US, but US ones are unable to operate in China is an historic abnormality.

Re: The antitrust trial against Google is starting in September

#30

Post by wak90 » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #13

p_j_w wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has over 90% of the desktop OS and Office software markets. It’s impossible to come up with a reasonable definition of monopoly that doesn’t include them in those markets.

They don’t have 90% [0]. They have about 70% of just desktop, but there’s lots of competition with devices since desktops have replacements with tablets and phones and other devices. Also, as the 90s Microsoft case showed, just having a monopoly isn’t bad. It’s the harm caused by having the monopoly. Back in the 90s, Microsoft was found to harm other browsers. [0] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/wo…

>Also, as the 90s Microsoft case showed, just having a monopoly isn’t bad. It’s the harm caused by having the monopoly.

Can you elaborate your thoughts here because the point of breaking up companies with monopolistic power is they cannot be divorced from monopolistic abuse of that power. It is written into US law that the company has a legal duty to it's shareholders. It seems your point is a distinction without a difference.