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I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

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Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#41
I know my comment is anecdotal but for me it's relevant.

I'm 60 years old. Up until about 25 I just listened to dentists. They drill-and-fill and I went along. No longer. In 35 years I've had one problem. I broke a tooth biting on a hard seed in some Indian food. I got a crown for that. A few years later the crown came off. I haven't bothered getting it replaced.

I don't have tooth pain. My teeth have not shifted. I still eat what I want. I'm careful with Indian food. :)

My takeaway? I'm not seeing the dentist until I'm in pain or something breaks. No one is drilling on X-ray shadows again.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#42

Just like car mechanics:)

If you take a car to a mechanic, the upper limit anyone will likely pay for repairs is the value of the car. If you take a human into the healthcare system, there is no upper limit.

A couple of my coworkers were paying up to the limit of their insurance and just leaving the rest.

I think that’s probably even worse.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#43

I've posted this before, but I went to a new dentist one time and though I'd never had a cavity, the new dentist said I had nine, some of which were pretty bad and needed immediate treatment lest they require a root canal. I didn't have any money or dental insurance at the time, so I didn't go back and just worried about it a lot for a while. That was twenty-five years ago. Haven't been to a dentist since. My teeth a…

I had a similar experience, got up sold on more frequent cleanings and they always found something to iterate on. I took their offer once to fill a “potential infection” and then recognized the pattern. They probably legitimately think the tooth may decay further - it probably won’t and you probably don’t need pre-emptive correction but they make more money and “fix” the problem for you so they may not see the ethical issue.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#44

There's a lot of perverse incentives baked into dentistry. This is true of allopathic medicine was well, though I think it can be more difficult for someone to dispute a diagnosis from a dentist; who are you to say that little dot on your X-ray isn't serious enough to be drilled? It wouldn't surprise me if there are many fill-n-drill dentists out there. I knew people whose oral hygiene and diets were far worse than m…

Having had 4 root canals (even though not consuming much sugar), I got kinda obsessed over oral health and looked for options beyond brushing multiple times a day and flossing. In case anyone’s interested, here are some, ordered descendingly by perceived helpfulness:

- Vitamins K2 and D3 halted further decay it seems. For a few years I took only those and things plateaued mostly (but not entirely).

- Chewable digestive enzymes - not much research on this, but eg bromelain destroys biofilm, exposing pathogens to other interventions. This eliminated sensitive gums and remaining pains quickly for me.

- Oral probiotic chewables (Salivarius K12) every now and then reduced the occasional pain in root canals. I also slept better, probably because they reduced throat swelling too.

- Intranasal pathogen interventions (nasal rinse with NAC, tea tree oil etc) and L. Sakei colonization were actually meant to improve nasal breathing (they did), but also helped oral health.

- Organic silica (liquid MMST in my case, but chOSA should work too) - has made my enamel look more solid.

- Tooth paste (chewable actually) containing baking soda, reducing acidity. This helped reduce pain greatly when one of the root canals got inflamed.

Oh and really do take care of inflamed root canals. Those are a major health risk. Look into getting the roots cut off and sealed - it’s gruesome but could save the tooth with relatively low cost.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#45
post #38

Does anyone know the best way to get proper diagnostics care for a possible tooth fracture without being given the run around and ripped off by dentists? Whilst extracting my last wisdom tooth (in the US) the dentist must have made a bad mistake, because right after the procedure I couldn't bite down properly on the affected side on my mouth. I went for years with this situation, and started experiencing occasional p…

[deleted]

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#46
(Throwaway account)

I can only say, avoid dental chains at all costs and only go to trusted dentist owned clinics if possible.

I'm from EU and I got a yearly review + professional cleaning in a chain for my first job more than 15 years ago. The first time I used it they diagnosed me 4 or 5 caries that needed treatment, they said it was just a "beginning" but that it should be treated soon.

I ignored it and left it untreated for 1 year. My family never had problems with caries and before that time I was going to a public dentist who never identified any problem.

Next year I used the professional cleaning again but I went to a different clinic. They identified again 4 caries but in completely different teeth! Since that day I don-t trust any dentist that need an insurance to get patients or is managed by a profit-oriented chain. Note that in my country a lot of dentists don't work with insurance but that might not be the case in other places.

It's not like the dentists shouldn't earn good money, but they the ones that have their own clinic earn more than enough to not have to scam their patients. And even these can be greedy, but at least they are not pushed by a manager with monthly goals, so the chances are lower.

Fast-forward I met my now wife who is actually a dentist. 10 years later after my fake 5 caries she didn't find any.

When she finished her studies, she had to work for a few chains as well. What she saw there is terrifying.

The 1st job she was fired after 4 days because she was asking for autoclave sterilized material for every patient. First they tried to push back saying that ultrasound and chemical was enough, but she was having any of it.

Later the same week, she had a family with 3 kids, and she also requested sterilized tools for each of the 5 patients. They were telling her that sharing tools with the same family is totally fine. She was ready to leave the job the next day but they were faster and fired her. I guess she was starting to raise ideas to the young assistants.

After that she still worked in a few more places before she could find the right family owned clinic first and later start her own clinic.

During this period, she saw multiple malpractices and the authorities are not checking anything until somebody is badly hurt: Non-graduated dentists doing full-licensed dentist procedures, low quality materials and tools from Aliexpress that shouldn't be used for any medical procedure, patients coming from other clinics where after checking the history of x-rays she could see the dentist "planted" the root canal treatment (difficult to 100% proof of course), dentists invoicing for things that they didn't really do, and the list goes on...

Just please, be very careful when choosing your dentist. Some people can save tons of money and a lot of teeth if they have a knowledgeable and honest dentist.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#47
My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years.

I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meandering answers.

This was a deeply distressing experience. For the first time ever I did the “call in a personal favour” thing and asked my dad to reach out a family friend, a former cosmetic dentist and former head of the province’s dental association for a second opinion.

He saw my son a few hours later and he was just livid about the diagnosis. That it was possible they’d have to come out but it’s impossible to know this for at least a few more weeks or more.

In a few months the teeth returned 100% to normal and firmed right up as the ligaments healed.

I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry.

My feeling is that the nature of dentistry leaves a lot of room for subjectivity and COVID left a lot of dental chairs empty.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#48

I know my comment is anecdotal but for me it's relevant. I'm 60 years old. Up until about 25 I just listened to dentists. They drill-and-fill and I went along. No longer. In 35 years I've had one problem. I broke a tooth biting on a hard seed in some Indian food. I got a crown for that. A few years later the crown came off. I haven't bothered getting it replaced. I don't have tooth pain. My teeth have not shifted. I…

Setting aside the drilling on shadows...

There are studies that link gum disease to dementia.

https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/large-study-links-gum-disease-d...

> The mouth is home to about 700 species of bacteria, including those that can cause periodontal (gum) disease. A recent analysis led by NIA scientists suggests that bacteria that cause gum disease are also associated with the development of Alzheimer’s disease and related dementias, especially vascular dementia. The results were reported in the Journal of Alzheimer’s Disease.

Going to the dentist for cleaning may be a good thing for those with less than ideal dental hygiene habits - even if no suggestions of cavities are ever drilled.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#49

At the very end of the article: "This article originally ran in the February 1997 issue of Reader’s Digest." Surely this should be noted in the HN title?

I caught that too…after I had already shared this with my wife

But it still feels relevant. I had a dentist that wanted to drill cavities out with every visit, regardless of how often I flossed and brushed

Been to four dentists since and haven’t been told anything bad at all. There absolutely still exist dentists who are cashing in on us.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#50

I've posted this before, but I went to a new dentist one time and though I'd never had a cavity, the new dentist said I had nine, some of which were pretty bad and needed immediate treatment lest they require a root canal. I didn't have any money or dental insurance at the time, so I didn't go back and just worried about it a lot for a while. That was twenty-five years ago. Haven't been to a dentist since. My teeth a…

It's so weird, as I had a very near identical experience. I went through a cursory checkup then they sat me in some waiting room with a video on all sorts of dental diseases, apparently all of which I had. They needed to drill out some half dozen cavities, carry out a root canal, and I cannot even remember all what else. I noped out without even asking for a quote, and started skipping my annual exams.

Some 20 years later I finally went to a dentist again, in a developing country no less, because I had a visible cavity - my first ever. It was quite scary given the elapsed time. $15 dollars, and about as many minutes, later all was said and done, with no other issues present.

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