Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture • Hacker News Board

Re: Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture

#21

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 2:28 PM UTC

Dalewyn wrote: post #7

5ADBEEF wrote: post #2

Qualcomm, Nordic, NXP, Infineon, Bosch. Wonder what the value add for smaller companies is. Nordic is incorporating RISC-V cores into their new part but they have never done automotive certs before. also Qualcomm and Nordic partnering is like cats and dogs living together lol

x86 is locked down by Intel and AMD, and ARM demands tribute-- I mean license fees for ARM. That leaves only RISC-V for those who want to make their own processors without paying someone for the privilege. That's the value add.

> That leaves only RISC-V for those who want to make their own processors without paying someone for the privilege. That's the value add.

I don't think that's the value add for larger companies who want to pay and get a high level of support, it's that there are multiple vendors in theory and practice.

Re: Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture

#22

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 2:31 PM UTC

aborsy wrote: post #18

Dalewyn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

x86 is locked down by Intel and AMD, and ARM demands tribute-- I mean license fees for ARM. That leaves only RISC-V for those who want to make their own processors without paying someone for the privilege. That's the value add.

Once RISC-V gains market share, Intel and ARM will gradually react, lowering fees and opening their platforms proportionately, if needed. They will try to block the addition of value and market capture.

If that happens it's a win for everyone, but unlikely in practice, given their business models. Don't see how they can block RISC-V.

But an additional advantage for RISC-V is that it's a clean slate specification and very simple at its core, and that enables a lot more use cases that would otherwise be impossible due to legacy cruft.

Re: Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture

#23

Post by hashtag-til » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 2:44 PM UTC

aborsy wrote: post #20

civilitty wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qualcomm is especially awful to deal with. Even as a high volume customer getting anything from them (including chip errata!) was like pulling teeth.

I hear Qualcomm also doesn’t pay its engineers well. I wonder if that’s true. I certainly see Qualcomm engineers frequently leave and transition to FANG.

Yes it is. I have quite a few friends working for them in the UK. Also quite a toxic office environment.

Re: Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture

#24

Post by hashtag-til » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 2:49 PM UTC

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #22

aborsy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once RISC-V gains market share, Intel and ARM will gradually react, lowering fees and opening their platforms proportionately, if needed. They will try to block the addition of value and market capture.

If that happens it's a win for everyone, but unlikely in practice, given their business models. Don't see how they can block RISC-V. But an additional advantage for RISC-V is that it's a clean slate specification and very simple at its core, and that enables a lot more use cases that would otherwise be impossible due to legacy cruft.

Blocking won’t happen, but remember theses companies also detain a massive patent portifolio which is hard not to break while implementing similar techniques.

Despite personally I really wish it was different, there is a lot of fragmentation already in RISC-V and I feel it only tends to grow given managers will always push to create some internal secret sauce.

Re: Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture

#25

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 2:58 PM UTC

eunos wrote: post #19

aborsy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once RISC-V gains market share, Intel and ARM will gradually react, lowering fees and opening their platforms proportionately, if needed. They will try to block the addition of value and market capture.

In that case the main strength of RISC-V would be Chinese companies since it is theoretically sanction resistant.

[deleted]

Re: Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture

#26

Post by h2odragon » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 3:04 PM UTC

hruzgar wrote: post #8

I hope they don't create any license themselves and open source everything too

Yeah, "Qualcomm" is one of those places information never gets out of, right? This might turn out to be "influenced by RISC-V" but completely different actual instructions; with the NDA and lien on your soul before you can even sniff documentation .

Re: Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture

#27

Post by photonbeam » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

gchadwick wrote: post #17

Would be great if they actually provided some details of what this joint venture actually aims to do. Is it developing CPUs and other IP? Will it produce actual chips? Perhaps it's just a way for the various companies to pool money and resources to develop RISC-V standards and ecosystem things (like conformance test suites) and maybe bits of IP? The current info: > aimed at advancing the adoption of RISC-V globally b…

I read this as “If you’re reading this ARM, stop raising prices or we’ll replace you”

Re: Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture

#28

Post by lnsru » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

aborsy wrote: post #20

civilitty wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qualcomm is especially awful to deal with. Even as a high volume customer getting anything from them (including chip errata!) was like pulling teeth.

I hear Qualcomm also doesn’t pay its engineers well. I wonder if that’s true. I certainly see Qualcomm engineers frequently leave and transition to FANG.

Salary in Germany is good compared to regular automotive companies because Qualcomm has this nice stock bonus. Environment is rather toxic. The salary does not compensate that.

Re: Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture

#29

Post by lnsru » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

Looking at the stock price development and this one announcement sounds desperate and not like a serious strategy. I remember there was something with server ARM processors in the past. Now it’s all gone.

Re: Qualcomm starts a RISC-V joint venture

#30

Post by FirmwareBurner » Sun, Aug 06, 2023, 3:24 PM UTC

pclmulqdq wrote: post #15

nomilk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea if it's a lot or not, but for reference, Comma's initial (trial) order was for 10k chips.

That's very small for an automotive product, particularly when you don't have a much bigger follow-up order on your timeline. Around million units is the normal volume, and it's where companies like Qualcomm will start to talk to you. Many companies are a lot more friendly to small customers, though.

>That's very small for an automotive product

Also automotive customers tend to stick with their long term partners. It's why Renesas, Infineon and NXP(former Freescale) own the automotive MCU market.

Once you heavily invest in the ecosystem and buy all the tooling, compilers, debuggers, JTAG trace probes, and your workforce is already accustomed to all the pitfalls and workarounds of an architecture, it's too expensive too switch to a different provider.