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Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

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Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#161

Post by FirmwareBurner »

mdp2021 wrote: post #160
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>are there still traditional bank cards in Austria, not readable from a distance? Do you actually live in Austria and know the real situation on the ground, or are you making up fantasy scenarios for strawman arguments for some good old-fashioned internet trolling? Because you would know the answer tot that.

I wrote very clearly, FirmwareBurner: if you did not understand, re-read what I wrote and make the mandated effort. If clarifications are useful, ask for them. Nobody told you I live in Austria. The information I have is based on my research, which is unfortunately bound to be limited (which also implies, it was unsuccessful in finding around alternatives to the current mess). I have also been in Austria and made my…

Then you don't know what you're talking about, so I will end the conversation here to preserve my sanity. Good day sir.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#162

Post by hungryforcodes »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #148
laurencerowe wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m fine with electronic money but bank notes do get replaced periodically. Last time I went back to England I tried to pay with cash in the pub and was refused since the notes had been changed. Covid meant it was the first time I’d been back for several years. I paid on card like everyone else (not usual in the US.) Went to the post office the next day to exchange them, no ID required.

Ive got a bunch of Swiss currency that can only be exchanged at the Swiss national bank. Annoying. My Indian money is also obviously worthless now, I wonder if my euros are still useful? Cash is a pain, I wish I didn’t keep any foreign currency now since a lot of it is worthless or needs to be converted in special locations.

So you're saying Indian money is useless in India?

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#163

Post by bannedbybros »

TrainedMonkey wrote: post #44
throwaway60707 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in Europe, I have the feeling the vast majority of people consider it unnecessary. The vibe I get is "The system works, so why not let the government handle and control everything.". > I wouldn't be surprised if that is a golbal phenomena and holds steady throughout time. Come to the east of EU/Europe and you'll see a completely opposite vibe. No wonder, people in their 40s still remember communism. And the ol…

I've seen that vibe. In my experience, communism-was-better generally crystalizes out to two things: * Good old times / not remembering the bad parts. * Having your path in life mapped out, i.e. not dealing with uncertainty.

[dead]

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#164

Post by seanmcdirmid »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #162
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive got a bunch of Swiss currency that can only be exchanged at the Swiss national bank. Annoying. My Indian money is also obviously worthless now, I wonder if my euros are still useful? Cash is a pain, I wish I didn’t keep any foreign currency now since a lot of it is worthless or needs to be converted in special locations.

So you're saying Indian money is useless in India?

Yes, because they had a thing a few years where they made it useless, and everyone had to exchange for new notes (and even that was limited). It was well reported in the news at the time.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#165

Post by seanmcdirmid »

laurencerowe wrote: post #149
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive got a bunch of Swiss currency that can only be exchanged at the Swiss national bank. Annoying. My Indian money is also obviously worthless now, I wonder if my euros are still useful? Cash is a pain, I wish I didn’t keep any foreign currency now since a lot of it is worthless or needs to be converted in special locations.

In small amounts I enjoy how pretty it is. As a kid I found it fascinating how different it all looked. Growing up we only had a few. French Francs, German Marks, Belgian Francs, Danish Krone.

Yes. But I collected too much, this was when I was living in China and had a fear of not having enough hard convertible cash. I didn’t realize, as an American, that cash can expire.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#166

Post by hungryforcodes »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #164
hungryforcodes wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying Indian money is useless in India?

Yes, because they had a thing a few years where they made it useless, and everyone had to exchange for new notes (and even that was limited). It was well reported in the news at the time.

Ah, I see. But the new notes in India are fine then. It doesn't help you, I understand-- my condolences.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#167

Post by seanmcdirmid »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #166
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because they had a thing a few years where they made it useless, and everyone had to exchange for new notes (and even that was limited). It was well reported in the news at the time.

Ah, I see. But the new notes in India are fine then. It doesn't help you, I understand-- my condolences.

It is just annoying. They aren’t worth as much as money I had from the west. I have lots of Thai and Indonesian currency as well, but I’m sure it’s inflated to nothing by now.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#168

Post by mdp2021 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #161
mdp2021 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote very clearly, FirmwareBurner: if you did not understand, re-read what I wrote and make the mandated effort. If clarifications are useful, ask for them. Nobody told you I live in Austria. The information I have is based on my research, which is unfortunately bound to be limited (which also implies, it was unsuccessful in finding around alternatives to the current mess). I have also been in Austria and made my…

Then you don't know what you're talking about, so I will end the conversation here to preserve my sanity. Good day sir.

> you don't know

It will not be thank to you, seemingly, if we will know better.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#169

Post by BiteCode_dev »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #157
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All those topics will go down the drain even more if you get into a dictatorship. And cashless is a fantastic tool to get it.

What's with these strawmen arguments? How will cash prevent a dictatorship? And all cash users don't just keep their all cash under their mattress to be eaten away by rats and inflation, but still use banks and assets to hold their money and use ATMs to get cash as needed, so the government can still lock your banc account leaving you penniless regardless if you used to pay by cash at the supermarket or by card.

Cash don't prevent a dictatorship.

But having your entire population tracked when they pay and a way to shut down the money of anything because it has no cash fallback helps a lot setting one up.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#170

Post by FirmwareBurner »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #169
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's with these strawmen arguments? How will cash prevent a dictatorship? And all cash users don't just keep their all cash under their mattress to be eaten away by rats and inflation, but still use banks and assets to hold their money and use ATMs to get cash as needed, so the government can still lock your banc account leaving you penniless regardless if you used to pay by cash at the supermarket or by card.

Cash don't prevent a dictatorship. But having your entire population tracked when they pay and a way to shut down the money of anything because it has no cash fallback helps a lot setting one up.

How so? Look at modern dictatorships, or ones masquerading as democracies (Venezuela, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Turkey, Cuba, etc). They all use and allow cash. How did sticking to cash help them prevent their situation?

You can't function in a moderns western country without a bank account anyway: rent, salary, utilities, all are fully wired now (I can't go pay my utilities at the counter in cash or get my salary in cash), so even if you buy your groceries and weed with cash, the government can just lock your bank accounts making you broke overnight, and unless you got close friends and family to shelter you indefinitely, you're a few weeks/months away from homelessness deepening on how much you got saved under the mattress.

If the government wants to track you, they'll do it whether you use cash or not. Just look how effective the KGB and Stasi were at tracking people when cashless payments weren't even invented yet.

Your clutching at straws at this point trying to prove that cash plays such a big parts in preventing authoritarian regimes.

What helps prevent authoritarian regimes is a separation of powers in government and an accountable political class. The nordic countries have more or less given up cash, yet I doubt they're at the risk of political authoritarianism and have the lowest corruption index in the world. If you feel like your country is at the risk of becoming an dictatorship, maybe focus more on how you can become more like the nordics instead of sticking to cash.

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