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Yahoo Crosses The Line

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221–230 of 236 posts

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An analogy absolutely draws a comparison. An analogy illustrates common logical features of two commensurate problems. Man:woman, bull:cow. If I state this analogy to my wife, am I "comparing" her to a cow? > So you think it's permissible to condemn a human being while knowing essentially nothing about him, just going by what the groupthink tells you. If the groupthink is right, yes. Groupthink isn't always right.…

> Man:woman, bull:cow. If I state this analogy to my wife, am I "comparing" her to a cow? Some women might actually take offense at that, but I'd say no. But throwing Hitler into the analogy really does change its flavor, doesn't it? We're not talking about bulls and cows here. The analogy your position:my position::Satan:Jesus is a little bit more in line with the inflammatory one you actually used above. And in a c…

> And yes, on more than one occasion, I've told an inventor that I didn't believe he could get a patent on his idea.

I wanted to highlight this truly remarkable response, which displays the complete prostitution of the patent industry. Imsgine a literary agent saying: "on more than one occasion, I've told an author he couldn't get his book published."

Creating a useful invention and writing a readable novel are acts of human ingenuity on roughly the same level of difficulty. But as we see, the USPTO has lower standards than your average vanity press. So long as you keep feeding the machine, of course.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Man:woman, bull:cow. If I state this analogy to my wife, am I "comparing" her to a cow? Some women might actually take offense at that, but I'd say no. But throwing Hitler into the analogy really does change its flavor, doesn't it? We're not talking about bulls and cows here. The analogy your position:my position::Satan:Jesus is a little bit more in line with the inflammatory one you actually used above. And in a c…

> And there's no issue with mens rea here, since patent trolls aren't doing anything illegal. No. They aren't doing anything illegal. They're doing something evil . Mens rea is the mental state of doing evil . Not everything evil is illegal - for various reasons, some good and some bad. But the mental state is the same. Your enormous shiftiness around this issue demonstrates clear mens rea . In short, you know you're…

> Your enormous shiftiness around this issue demonstrates clear mens rea. In short, you know you're a bad boy.

Simply not true. The work I do helps independent inventors protect themselves, and it helps startups get funding... believe me, I have no qualms about what I do. It is a net positive for the economy and for people who create things.

> Mass murder is evil. Graft is evil. Your industry doesn't involve mass murder. It's just a big graft scheme, that's all. It's not Hitler. But it's still evil, like Hitler.

There you go again. I'm done responding to this nonsense though.

> You're simply trying to restrict the number of your enemies.

First of all, people who don't like the patent system are not my enemies. They simply hold different beliefs than I do. And second, all I'm asking is that people educate themselves to a very minor level before making asses of themselves.

> I'm sure many of them would be quite happy to see the entire patent bar in prison, or at least collectively disbarred.

I suspect not many people hold your extreme beliefs about imprisonment. Disbarment... who knows. If one has gotten the short end of the stick in a patent dispute, I guess it could make him dislike patent attorneys.

> No. You miss my point. Not even Congress could do it. If Congress passed a law, the patent bar would simply work around it and continue its present practices.

There's simply no reason to believe this. If Congress made a clear law prohibiting software patents, and it was a well-drafted law, then it would be followed.

> Germany before 1877. China now. (Yes, I know nominally China has a patent system, but nobody in China gives a shit about US patents.)

Nor should they. U.S. patents have no force outside the U.S. Chinese patents, however...

> There is only one "industrialized country" today, the US, because every other "country" in the world today unthinkingly adopts whatever comes out of WIPO's derriere.

You know WIPO isn't a U.S. organization, right? It's part of the U.N. It's in Geneva.

> I wanted to highlight this truly remarkable response, which displays the complete prostitution of the patent industry. Imsgine a literary agent saying: "on more than one occasion, I've told an author he couldn't get his book published."

So we've gone from you being "quite confident that you have never, ever once told any of your 'inventors'" . . . to "OK, but you don't say it often enough! But there are three things to note here:

1. Most of the clients who come in my door legitimately have come up with something that is, as far as I know, novel. But hey, I'm not an expert in every field, and I don't always do a patent search (it's not a requirement, and clients often don't want to spend the money).

2. It opens me up to a malpractice suit to tell someone "you cannot get a patent on that." Because what if I'm wrong? There's a lot of uncertainty around this question, so this is a phrase reserved for cases where I'm pretty damn sure.

3. You don't know how many clients I've served, or what percentage of them I've turned away. Hell, I dunno either. But I call them like I see them. I have a duty to my clients not to waste their money on a patent I know will never issue. In the cases where I'm sure enough to risk the malpractice claim, I tell them not to bother. I'm not sure what more I could do.

Just so you know, I've enjoyed our discussion today. With the exception of your Hitler comments, you've been pretty reasonable, and I try listen to conflicting, but reasonable, opinions with an open mind. I ask that you do the same. I'm not some demon, and I'm not ashamed of anything I do.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your account is less than a year old, please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. (It's a common semi-noob illusion.) Taken from http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I'll bet you're not just a patent lawyer, but a good one.

I'm pretty new to the game, but I do my best.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#224
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without copyright, for example, movies would have to recoup (most of) their production costs before ever showing the film to the public. Once they do, there is huge incentive for theaters to obtain third-party copies and show them without any remuneration to the moviemakers. There are similar arguments for books, music, and video games. How do you propose that this would work in practice?

Things worth being made would be prefunded, and things that aren't won't get made. As much as we enjoy entertainment, we cannot claim it is implemented as cheaply as possible. This would let the market actually sort out what is naturally viable.

Things worth being made would be prefunded

Prefunding isn't going to get us flying cars, just faster horses.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And there's no issue with mens rea here, since patent trolls aren't doing anything illegal. No. They aren't doing anything illegal. They're doing something evil . Mens rea is the mental state of doing evil . Not everything evil is illegal - for various reasons, some good and some bad. But the mental state is the same. Your enormous shiftiness around this issue demonstrates clear mens rea . In short, you know you're…

> Your enormous shiftiness around this issue demonstrates clear mens rea. In short, you know you're a bad boy. Simply not true. The work I do helps independent inventors protect themselves, and it helps startups get funding... believe me, I have no qualms about what I do. It is a net positive for the economy and for people who create things. > Mass murder is evil. Graft is evil. Your industry doesn't involve mass mur…

> You know WIPO isn't a U.S. organization, right? It's part of the U.N. It's in Geneva.

Yeah, and who created the UN? Denmark? Indonesia? The UN is about as Swiss as the Warsaw Pact is Polish.

> U.S. patents have no force outside the U.S.

You mean in theory, or in practice?

> First of all, people who don't like the patent system are not my enemies. They simply hold different beliefs than I do.

No, they are your enemies - for one simple reason. You're stealing from them. They may not know this, but I do.

> If one has gotten the short end of the stick in a patent dispute, I guess it could make him dislike patent attorneys.

It's not me personally - just my entire community.

> There's simply no reason to believe this. If Congress made a clear law prohibiting software patents, and it was a well-drafted law, then it would be followed.

Europe has a clear law prohibiting software patents. Parker v. Flook was a clear decision prohibiting software patents.

> So we've gone from you being "quite confident that you have never, ever once told any of your 'inventors'" . . . to "OK, but you don't say it often enough!

No, you misread. Intentionally, I imagine. I said: how often do you refuse to pursue a patent you're confident will issue, just because you don't believe it is morally worthy? I got my answer, between the lines.

> Just so you know, I've enjoyed our discussion today.

I have as well. I think you've been as frank and reasonable as is possible for someone in your profession.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#226

My new hobby: googling abstract website techniques to see what kind of patents I'm violating on a regular basis. Did you know about the patent on mouseover (but not mouseclick!) dropdown menus? http://www.m-cam.com/patently-obvious/intellectual-property-...

With treble damages, that could turn into an expensive hobby.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#227
post #101

Fred Being Fred aside... Yahoo! could be aiming to be acquired by Facebook or Google. Assuming the patents involved are tenable, this looks rather like a viable reverse-acquisition strategy.

But this really isn't the way to make any friends. I'd be surprised if anyone wants to do business with people like this ever again.

Corporations are like nations: they don't have friends, they have interests.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#228
post #215
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they didn't. Your memory of history is incorrect. Overture, a completely different company, sued Google in 2002, two years before their IPO. Yahoo purchased Overture in 2003. After this, Google settled. Google's IPO wasn't until 2004.

Thx for correction. Google reveals that Y! did sue X-fire apparently over a buddy list patent in 2005 which would also make the same point though.

Absolutely. I should make it clear: I am not defending Yahoo's behavior here. Just trying to keep the facts factual.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#229
post #204
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a copyright-free world, that merchandise could be made by anyone Not if you keep trademarks and have trademarks on the relevant characters, objects, etc.

If you allow trademarks on the characters and such, you end up in a worse position than when you started: Nobody can reproduce the original work or create any kind of derivative work without permission. This lasts in perpetuity as long as it is defended, and permission will likely never be given out of a belief that the trademark needs to be protected. In other words, you're free to do anything you want with the Harr…

I'm describing how trademark works. And yes, it does a lot of that.

Mind you, the trademark owner can authorize things. And I think there is even some analog of fair use for trademarks, but you should consult with a lawyer if you ever have more than an academic interest in such things.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#230
post #124
post #74

The only Yahoo! property that I care about is Flickr, which I also pay for. It would be nice to find an alternative. So: suggestions for a social photo archive service which is reliable enough to be the "master copy" of my pictures, and preferably has Flickr import ability?

Take a look at 500px.com; it seems a large swath of the higher-end of the community is migrating there. At this point, it's probably where I'm going to land with my archive if I have to move. Unfortunately, I don't believe they have the ability to automatically import your Flickr photos.

I was looking at the API, and it seems that import would be quite easy. But since they lack tagging and some other Flickr-like features, the import would have to be slightly lossy.
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