CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft

#41

Post by treprinum » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:17 PM UTC

madballster wrote: post #10

nine_zeros wrote: post #3

CEOs pay is tied to the stock price. They will do whatever it takes to boost the stock price, until they are out with a golden parachute. From their perspective, the business is all about boosting the stock price. It doesn't matter if the boost comes from innovation, or from polluting the planet, or from unscrupulous addictive practices, or from culling the employees. Employees are merely, an often undesired, side-ef…

That is a very narrow and frankly sweepingly incorrect description of "CEOs" or "companies". They're not all the same. I for one (alongside many other investors) carefully study incentive programs and compensation oversight executed by the board of directors. There are many thoughtful companies (and CEOs) who e.g. align over very long-term targets, such as '5 year return on capital". Investors have found out a long t…

Are you a CEO of a public company or still private? There is a huge difference in incentives from institutional shareholder pressure.

Re: CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft

#42

Post by SteveNuts » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:17 PM UTC

melenaboija wrote: post #26

> Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai was awarded compensation worth more than $225 million in 2022 I know this has been discussed here and 225MM is like the salary of 1000 employees making 200K for only one year, it is stock which is volatoile, that the salary of a CEO is impossible to measure, bla bla bla. But holy guacamole, whatever is the angle I look at it 225MM pear year does not make any f_ing sense to me and it is si…

And then you get guys like Bill McGuire who get caught backdating stock options. His punishment? A $1.6Bn golden parachute of course.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_W._McGuire#UnitedHea...

Re: CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft

#43

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:18 PM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #22

This isn't really a surprise. We've created a society that depends on growth. CEOs sign up for a job where they're responsible for growing a company, so they're obviously the type to value growth and want more for themsleves too – there's not a lot of CEOs who do it out of the goodness of their hearts. The investors, from the board down to individual nameless shareholders, all demand more money every quarter... even…

[deleted]

Re: CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft

#44

Post by s1artibartfast » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:18 PM UTC

mistrial9 wrote: post #28

s1artibartfast wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with pretty much everything you say except this. >Employees are merely, an often undesired, side-effect in the business of boosting stock prices. Employees are worse than a side effect, they're a cost center to be avoided if possible. You want to achieve your goals with as few employees as possible.

it is truly a product of the computer age, to come up with self-centered ego BS like this. You do not acknowledge different industries or business models, distribution of physical goods or market brand activity, let along "things that take more that one person to do" .. This is a rote recital of an inner dialog of an ill "investor" CEO who might as soon throw his secretary off of a bridge than give a bonus for winter…

Never in history have companies hired more employees for the sake of having more employees. This isn't a new modern or even libertarian hypothesis.

Do you think people in 1000 bc hired more employees than they needed just maximize headcount. Of course not. You want enough to get the job done and not more.

Re: CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft

#45

Post by ocdtrekkie » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:18 PM UTC

melenaboija wrote: post #26

> Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai was awarded compensation worth more than $225 million in 2022 I know this has been discussed here and 225MM is like the salary of 1000 employees making 200K for only one year, it is stock which is volatoile, that the salary of a CEO is impossible to measure, bla bla bla. But holy guacamole, whatever is the angle I look at it 225MM pear year does not make any f_ing sense to me and it is si…

It's stunning how you can make that much money while also pretty much completely burning the company to the ground. Destroyed nearly all trust with consumers, the core product is mostly a joke, every legal jurisdiction out there has a case against Google pending, and oh, yeah, even Google's own employees have been shaken by the layoffs and many of the usual shills for the company have gone quiet because, well, they stopped getting paid.

If CEO pay is supposed to have any relationship to actual outcome, dude should be long gone, not be getting salary increases.

Sure, shareholders have gotten some short term gains, but the company no longer has a positive long-term outlook.

Re: CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft

#46

Post by vouaobrasil » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:18 PM UTC

jtode wrote: post #16

It's become tiresome, reading things that pretend this is not business as usual.

Maybe it's a good thing to repeat it again and again so we can see how ridiculous it is. Sometimes people really need to be hit on the head.

Re: CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft

#47

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:18 PM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #22

This isn't really a surprise. We've created a society that depends on growth. CEOs sign up for a job where they're responsible for growing a company, so they're obviously the type to value growth and want more for themsleves too – there's not a lot of CEOs who do it out of the goodness of their hearts. The investors, from the board down to individual nameless shareholders, all demand more money every quarter... even…

The treadmill is entirely opt-in. Why do you participate? Your profile says that you are a founder.

Re: CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft

#48

Post by s1artibartfast » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #31

melenaboija wrote: post #26

> Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai was awarded compensation worth more than $225 million in 2022 I know this has been discussed here and 225MM is like the salary of 1000 employees making 200K for only one year, it is stock which is volatoile, that the salary of a CEO is impossible to measure, bla bla bla. But holy guacamole, whatever is the angle I look at it 225MM pear year does not make any f_ing sense to me and it is si…

The claim is that you want the CEO to be aligned with the shareholders, and therefore you incentivize them with high salaries. Who cares about future shareholders or consequences for that matter when you earn 225MM ? Go move to some country that doesn't tax capital gains, sell it all, and live on 4% of it, which is 9MM per year; live like a king, buy absurd amounts of land and multiply your passive income. Obscene is…

You can't move countries to avoid capital gains.

Re: CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft

#49

Post by whimsicalism » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

I am extremely skeptical that at the higher levels of CEO pay there is any marginal utility.

I just don’t think the improved management quality you get from an additional $1M is actually making the company more than $1M in profits. Seems like a failure of markets

Re: CEOs’ pay climbed before layoffs at tech giants like Alphabet and Microsoft

#50

Post by mrcode007 » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

nine_zeros wrote: post #15

toomuchtodo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stock buybacks used to be illegal. Lots of ways to use policy to encourage long-term shareholder value if boards and corporate bylaws won’t.

Stock buyback is equivalent to paying a dividend. If stock buybacks are prevented, companies will continue to layoff and pay out dividends. It doesn't solve the root cause that employees don't have a seat at the decision-making table. At a minimum, if corporation laws were modified such that every laid off employee must be issued 1 year worth of shares as a golden parachute, the incentives will all get aligned very q…

It is not the same as a dividend. Not even close.

By definition, one returns cash, the other doesn’t.

The stock buyback also prevents market price discovery because of an artificial price floor.

The buyback is also a subject to buyback tax, transaction fee at the broker, and the benefits of the buyback are not captured by the long term holders, only by short term holders, e.g. insiders, who often sell into the buyback guaranteeing a price floor and effectively an execution price.