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Why Are Lawyers So Expensive Even With The Excess Supply Of Lawyers?

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Re: Why Are Lawyers So Expensive Even With The Excess Supply Of Lawyers?

#211

Post by ktizo »

javert wrote: post #198
ktizo wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can judge Ayn Rand's philosophy partly on that of Aristotle given that she claimed to be a philosopher who owed nothing to anyone else in her philosophy other than Aristotle. Which I personally think is a completely ludicrous and frankly egotistical thing for anyone to try and claim. So how am I being dishonest? Also, how have I misunderstood the idea being presented here; "For instance, in the definition of table…

but given that you presented me with this excerpt and claimed it as a reasonable argument I didn't claim it as a reasonable argument. I don't think it's very useful out of context. Just wanted to illustrate genus and differentia. So how am I being dishonest? You're being dishonest because you're just indulging your emotional whims by "judging" things on completely irrational criteria, instead of actually examining th…

Is funny, I'd say you were being irrational due to an emotional attachment to Ayn Rands work.

That was my judgement when you used her lexicon as the ultimate arbiter of the definition of 'definition' and then just told people to read it when challenged on this position.

Re: Why Are Lawyers So Expensive Even With The Excess Supply Of Lawyers?

#212

Post by rbarooah »

philwelch wrote: post #204
rbarooah wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm aside, you're missing the point. Why isn't it sufficient to regulate the title 'Doctor' without preventing other practitioners from practicing? People who wanted a traditional medical practitioner would be protected, and those who were willing to take more risk would have the choice.

Homeopaths and acupuncturists don't even do normal medical procedures; that's kind of the point. If you are doing normal medical procedures, you should be licensed and regulated to make sure you know what the hell you're doing. The freedom to have an unlicensed witch doctor perform open heart surgery on you isn't an essential human right; it's not even something a sane and informed person would want to do. It's a non…

Mentioning witch-doctors, homeopaths and acupuncturists is a straw man.

It seems to me that that private group of scientifically grounded medical practitioners who certified their members, but had different criteria from the state licensing system could be a very good thing.

This alternate certification would need to prove its reputation just as the institutions that certify doctors have. It seems likely that there are ways to train and certify doctors that produce better professionals than the current ones.

I doubt you're arguing that current state approved medical institutions cannot be improved upon. Why not allow alternatives to compete with them?

Re: Why Are Lawyers So Expensive Even With The Excess Supply Of Lawyers?

#213

Post by sethg »

Anechoic wrote: post #52
wtvanhest wrote: post #14

The unobvious but major thing missed is that hiring the wrong lawyer is far more expensive than an additional $300 per hour. Since the only way to know if you are hiring the right lawyer is to base it on brand, top firms have a lot of pricing power and middle firms dissapear.

The unobvious but major thing missed is that hiring the wrong lawyer is far more expensive than an additional $300 per hour You could say the same for any number of industries - hire the wrong structural engineer and that bridge or building will collapse, hire the wrong nuclear engineer and attack sub might run out of power while engaging the enemy, hire the wrong electrical engineer and the airliner's control system…

When you hire a structural engineer to design a bridge, you aren’t worried that your enemy has hired his or her own structural engineer to undermine your bridge at its weakest points.

Re: Why Are Lawyers So Expensive Even With The Excess Supply Of Lawyers?

#214

Post by philwelch »

rbarooah wrote: post #212
philwelch wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homeopaths and acupuncturists don't even do normal medical procedures; that's kind of the point. If you are doing normal medical procedures, you should be licensed and regulated to make sure you know what the hell you're doing. The freedom to have an unlicensed witch doctor perform open heart surgery on you isn't an essential human right; it's not even something a sane and informed person would want to do. It's a non…

Mentioning witch-doctors, homeopaths and acupuncturists is a straw man. It seems to me that that private group of scientifically grounded medical practitioners who certified their members, but had different criteria from the state licensing system could be a very good thing. This alternate certification would need to prove its reputation just as the institutions that certify doctors have. It seems likely that there a…

> It seems to me that that private group of scientifically grounded medical practitioners who certified their members, but had different criteria from the state licensing system could be a very good thing.

Could be, perhaps. Now weigh that hypothetical scenario against what actually happened in history that led to the state medical boards being created.

> I doubt you're arguing that current state approved medical institutions cannot be improved upon. Why not allow alternatives to compete with them?

Because we tried that and it didn't work last time. It got so bad that self-proclaimed "doctors" set up self-proclaimed "medical schools" as a con, paid large sums of money for cadavers "no questions asked", and ended up getting people murdered.

Do you have some legitimate problem with your state's medical board? I'd suggest you take it up with your state legislator.

Besides, there are alternatives--some states have separate osteopathic boards that license D.O.'s rather than M.D.'s, yet licensed D.O.'s have the exact same privileges as any other doctor.

Re: Why Are Lawyers So Expensive Even With The Excess Supply Of Lawyers?

#215

Post by rbarooah »

philwelch wrote: post #214
rbarooah wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mentioning witch-doctors, homeopaths and acupuncturists is a straw man. It seems to me that that private group of scientifically grounded medical practitioners who certified their members, but had different criteria from the state licensing system could be a very good thing. This alternate certification would need to prove its reputation just as the institutions that certify doctors have. It seems likely that there a…

> It seems to me that that private group of scientifically grounded medical practitioners who certified their members, but had different criteria from the state licensing system could be a very good thing. Could be, perhaps. Now weigh that hypothetical scenario against what actually happened in history that led to the state medical boards being created. > I doubt you're arguing that current state approved medical ins…

This is another bunch of straw-men.

I nowhere suggested going back to how things were before, and my proposal explicitly rejected the idea of allowing self-proclaimed doctors.

Re: Why Are Lawyers So Expensive Even With The Excess Supply Of Lawyers?

#216

Post by philwelch »

rbarooah wrote: post #215
philwelch wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems to me that that private group of scientifically grounded medical practitioners who certified their members, but had different criteria from the state licensing system could be a very good thing. Could be, perhaps. Now weigh that hypothetical scenario against what actually happened in history that led to the state medical boards being created. > I doubt you're arguing that current state approved medical ins…

This is another bunch of straw-men. I nowhere suggested going back to how things were before, and my proposal explicitly rejected the idea of allowing self-proclaimed doctors.

Only self-proclaimed licensing boards? If you want an alternative licensing board, the osteopathic boards are it. Otherwise you're just engaging in ideological privatization for the sake of privatization; you don't even have a rationale for what's wrong with the licensing boards we do have.

Re: Why Are Lawyers So Expensive Even With The Excess Supply Of Lawyers?

#217

Post by mfaustman »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #121
mfaustman wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you do not need to go to law school to be a lawyer. Anyone can take the BAR and be a lawyer. Again, as Antone points out, this all comes down to a perception of quality. Many people (and I am not saying you) would not hire a lawyer who did not go to law school.

If I'm reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admission_to_the_bar_in_the_Uni... correctly, there are only four US states which don't make law school a requirement, and two more which don't require a granted degree.

Did not check on this until now. Meant to say, "in California" considering the heavy conversation surrounding startup lawyers and the location of the author. Good catch! Anyone can take the BAR in California and yet legal prices here are some of the highest in the country.
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