Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 176 posts

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#141

Post by cuttysnark »

sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #113
cuttysnark wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your analogy, but it excludes a reason I've heard from at least a few candid bar owners in NYC: "Do you know how much money you can hide in these drawers?" Which is to say "do you have any idea how peaceful it is to use the restroom with a locking door and no security cameras?" I'm not saying I agree with or endorse tax evasion—but some are doing it for this very reason, while others simply don't want a 3rd pa…

Forgive me if I don't exactly take "I can't commit crime as easily" as a good justification for anything. If you don't like the tax law, work on getting it changed or move your business somewhere where the taxes are more to your liking. Oh, being in NYC gives you access to a massive market you wouldn't have if you were in a lower tax environment? A market that continues to exist thanks to infrastructure funded via ta…

> Forgive me if I don't exactly take "I can't commit crime as easily" as a good justification for anything.

That was half of it—the other half was some businesses would prefer to not have a credit card processor party to their sale. It could be for a number of reasons that that are perfectly valid and legal.

> If you don't like the tax law, work on getting it changed or move your business

Also, to be clear, I am but a messenger. I don't own a business or take cash or credit card payments. If I did, I reckon I'd report them accurately for fear of getting audited and hauled off to prison—but I do appreciate your enthusiasm.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#142

Post by landemva »

dragonwriter wrote: post #139
deltarholamda wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an odd assertion to make, considering the current condition of fiat currencies. Gold is more or less untethered to anything right now, other than what people think it's worth as a hedge. There is an intrinsic value in industrial applications, but that's an edge case. So you are basically valuing gold based on what you can get for it in fiat currencies, which is like using a yardstick to measure itself. Inflati…

> That's an odd assertion to make, considering the current condition of fiat currencies. Its not, if you look at the actual inflation-adjusted price of gold over time. The claim that the exchange value of gold for other goods and services should be more stable than the exchange rate of fiat currencies for goods and services simply is inconsistent with the facts. > If you have to cough up something--gold, silver, goat…

> the exchange rate of fiat currencies for goods and services simply is inconsistent with the facts.

Those who did well in the birthing geo lottery of North America have a different experience than most others. Even European nations in past 25 years cancelled their currencies.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#143

Post by touristtam »

Makhini wrote: post #69
throwaway60707 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in Europe, I have the feeling the vast majority of people consider it unnecessary. The vibe I get is "The system works, so why not let the government handle and control everything.". > I wouldn't be surprised if that is a golbal phenomena and holds steady throughout time. Come to the east of EU/Europe and you'll see a completely opposite vibe. No wonder, people in their 40s still remember communism. And the ol…

In Poland cashless payments thrive, more than in Germany.

German have always been more reliant on cash than their European counterpart. The 500 Euro bill was allegedly created on the request of Germany.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#144

Post by mdp2021 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #140
mdp2021 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> going cashless was never an issue in Austria to begin with I have had requests in Austria to pay with a card: some pressure exists. After 2020, such pressure was on signs spread in the territory. And Austria is part of systems above. Or, for example, does one still find bank cards without "Contactless" NFC in Austria? Please let us know - I am sitting in the car right now.

>I have had requests in Austria to pay with a card: We must be living in different Austrias then. I've never been pressured to pay by card ever and many places don't even accept cards. >After 2020, such pressure was on signs spread in the territory. Well yeah, Covid happened in 2020, and contactless payment is much more hygienic than exchanging paper that's been through god knows where throught its lifetime. Or don't…

So you are minimizing the pressure towards using cards instead of cash in the last years as contingent only. At least in Austria. And you are suggesting that now it is over.

You are also minimizing the point that Austria is not a disconnected independent self-ruling entity, but part of bigger systems and a subject in bigger systems. I said: are there still traditional bank cards in Austria, not readable from a distance? The wave to remove them seems to be international. Not only the apparently last international circuit (Maestro) using them was ceased one month ago, but I am not aware of traditional cards working in at least local circuits. Austria seems to be bearing "alien" pressures like the rest.

You have to see the waves coming to prevent them. That of Covid is suggestive: in the Fall of 2020 in Austria it seemed to be regarded as just an "Italian predicament".

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#145

Post by laurencerowe »

landemva wrote: post #142
dragonwriter wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an odd assertion to make, considering the current condition of fiat currencies. Its not, if you look at the actual inflation-adjusted price of gold over time. The claim that the exchange value of gold for other goods and services should be more stable than the exchange rate of fiat currencies for goods and services simply is inconsistent with the facts. > If you have to cough up something--gold, silver, goat…

> the exchange rate of fiat currencies for goods and services simply is inconsistent with the facts. Those who did well in the birthing geo lottery of North America have a different experience than most others. Even European nations in past 25 years cancelled their currencies.

EU countries who switched to the Euro did not cancel their currency. It automatically converted and you had years to convert physical currency at the bank.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#146

Post by touristtam »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #55
TrainedMonkey wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen that vibe. In my experience, communism-was-better generally crystalizes out to two things: * Good old times / not remembering the bad parts. * Having your path in life mapped out, i.e. not dealing with uncertainty.

>Good old times / not remembering the bad parts. Probably because the "bad parts" never applied to them since they had the right socio-economic background (connections to the party), and they knew how to game the system so that it worked in their favor (did no actual work but were reaping the rewards). >Having your path in life mapped out, i.e. not dealing with uncertainty. Because after the fall of communism a huge…

> Probably because the "bad parts" never applied to them since they had the right socio-economic background (connections to the party), and they knew how to game the system so that it worked in their favor (did no actual work but were reaping the rewards).

Without having to "game" the system, one could easily fall for the rose-tinted glass effect. I have seen it a few times in people that have lived through the war (WWII) and would have happily told you how their leader weren't so bad (including the one in bed with or directly associated with Nazism).

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#147

Post by laurencerowe »

mdp2021 wrote: post #79
tpoacher wrote: post #75

Cash would have been a lot more useful if they didn't mandate "renewal" every 5-10 years. (which necessarily needs to happen via a bank, obviously).

> if they didn't mandate "renewal" every 5-10 years Where?

I’m fine with electronic money but bank notes do get replaced periodically. Last time I went back to England I tried to pay with cash in the pub and was refused since the notes had been changed. Covid meant it was the first time I’d been back for several years. I paid on card like everyone else (not usual in the US.) Went to the post office the next day to exchange them, no ID required.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#148

Post by seanmcdirmid »

laurencerowe wrote: post #147
mdp2021 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if they didn't mandate "renewal" every 5-10 years Where?

I’m fine with electronic money but bank notes do get replaced periodically. Last time I went back to England I tried to pay with cash in the pub and was refused since the notes had been changed. Covid meant it was the first time I’d been back for several years. I paid on card like everyone else (not usual in the US.) Went to the post office the next day to exchange them, no ID required.

Ive got a bunch of Swiss currency that can only be exchanged at the Swiss national bank. Annoying. My Indian money is also obviously worthless now, I wonder if my euros are still useful? Cash is a pain, I wish I didn’t keep any foreign currency now since a lot of it is worthless or needs to be converted in special locations.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#149

Post by laurencerowe »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #148
laurencerowe wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m fine with electronic money but bank notes do get replaced periodically. Last time I went back to England I tried to pay with cash in the pub and was refused since the notes had been changed. Covid meant it was the first time I’d been back for several years. I paid on card like everyone else (not usual in the US.) Went to the post office the next day to exchange them, no ID required.

Ive got a bunch of Swiss currency that can only be exchanged at the Swiss national bank. Annoying. My Indian money is also obviously worthless now, I wonder if my euros are still useful? Cash is a pain, I wish I didn’t keep any foreign currency now since a lot of it is worthless or needs to be converted in special locations.

In small amounts I enjoy how pretty it is. As a kid I found it fascinating how different it all looked. Growing up we only had a few. French Francs, German Marks, Belgian Francs, Danish Krone.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#150

Post by Canada »

tzs wrote: post #124

For people who are OK with keeping their money in banks but want to take it out as cash so they can spend it anonymously (as opposed to those who want cash because they don't want to have anything to do with the banking system at all) it is possible to design a system that retains the anonymity of cash but has the convenience of digital currency. And no, this does not require a blockchain. Long before Bitcoin, back i…

Where is the technical description of this?
Post reply on HN