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Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

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Re: Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

#91

Post by petre »

aCoreyJ wrote: post #49
cubefox wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people saying we should not just not stop, but even increase sulfur injection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_aerosol_injectio... The thing is, this is not a one time solution. We would have to do it continuously, or else the temperature would quickly rise again. And we would have to increase sulphur injection if the CO2 level keeps rising. It could be a temporary solution though, e.g. until al…

There are ways to make clouds and have this effect that don't involve sulfur! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_cloud_brightening

You know what happens to soil when it rains salt from the clouds, right?

Sulphur at least is more natural, as it's also released by volcanoes.

https://extension.psu.edu/sulfur-fertility-management-for-gr...

Re: Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

#92

Post by junofan »

aCoreyJ wrote: post #49
cubefox wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people saying we should not just not stop, but even increase sulfur injection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_aerosol_injectio... The thing is, this is not a one time solution. We would have to do it continuously, or else the temperature would quickly rise again. And we would have to increase sulphur injection if the CO2 level keeps rising. It could be a temporary solution though, e.g. until al…

There are ways to make clouds and have this effect that don't involve sulfur! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_cloud_brightening

Am I understanding that page correctly? Sounds like 3–4 deg C of cooling for an estimated $5 bn/yr.

Re: Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

#93

Post by raggi »

brutusborn wrote: post #7

Not a bad thread but misses a critical point. If the Sulfur emissions policies were known for >5 years and discussed for >10 years why aren’t they part of mainstream climate models? The best answer I could find was essentially that models use a proxy for aerosols and so including the new policy might cause “double counting” of this forcing. This ‘conservatism’ caused this effect to be left out of the models. So the s…

> If the Sulfur emissions policies were known for >5 years and discussed for >10 years why aren’t they part of mainstream climate models?

Why do you believe that they are not?

Re: Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

#94

Post by marcosdumay »

cubefox wrote: post #19
ChatGTP wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if it's a naive question but if it was actually helping the situation, why do we need to stop? So it seems the sulfur was removed for the obvious season that it's not good for respiratory health, but it may be a necessary evil for sometime ?

There are people saying we should not just not stop, but even increase sulfur injection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_aerosol_injectio... The thing is, this is not a one time solution. We would have to do it continuously, or else the temperature would quickly rise again. And we would have to increase sulphur injection if the CO2 level keeps rising. It could be a temporary solution though, e.g. until al…

To be fair, if we did mostly stop fossil fuel exploration and emissions right now we would get a quick reduction of antropogenic warming into some 80% to 90% of the current amount in some 4 decades due to some fast-degrading gases that are not CO2.

That said, we won't stop fossil fuel exploration and the related emissions, so yes, it's temporary.

Re: Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

#95

Post by brutusborn »

hotdogscout wrote: post #68
brutusborn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m saying I used to think climategate was all conspiracy theory nonsense. Now I think there was likely an attempt to hide unhelpful data.

Climategate was definitely real even if it obviously does not disprove or relate to human-driven climate change. Scientists are sometimes politically motivated and will resort to lying to push their point. This romanticization of scientists and scientific institutions as inherently above lying and fraud is mythological. I see it happening on engineering research that has zero political relevance, imagine research tha…

The way I see it is the media conflated “ClimateGate deniers think global warming is false” with “ClimateGate deniers think global warming models aren’t scientific.”

Any politicised science should be treated with extreme. skepticism

Re: Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

#96

Post by brutusborn »

raggi wrote: post #93
brutusborn wrote: post #7

Not a bad thread but misses a critical point. If the Sulfur emissions policies were known for >5 years and discussed for >10 years why aren’t they part of mainstream climate models? The best answer I could find was essentially that models use a proxy for aerosols and so including the new policy might cause “double counting” of this forcing. This ‘conservatism’ caused this effect to be left out of the models. So the s…

> If the Sulfur emissions policies were known for >5 years and discussed for >10 years why aren’t they part of mainstream climate models? Why do you believe that they are not?

https://twitter.com/leonsimons8/status/1666729264270520322?s...

Re: Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

#97

Post by RandomLensman »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #89
RandomLensman wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrelevant to what humans can do. If anything speaks to human geoengineering ability.

Bullshit. It clearly shows humans unwillingness to engage with the problem, with no evidence as of yet to support the notion that this will change in any meaningful way at any arbitrary future date. It certainly does not demonstrate any latent ability to curb the problems created by elevated greenhouse gas emissions.

That is just unhappiness with how and when it's tackled not that it won't be tackled.

Re: Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

#98

Post by brutusborn »

jonathankoren wrote: post #73
brutusborn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what you’re referring to. ClimateGate was about the quality of evidence for early global warming studies. It claimed that scientists were hiding bad data and evidence that their models had problems. This seems very similar: models missing data and forcing but not being criticised when they miss a once in a century confirmation event.

No. The “scandal” was they were hiding evidence of cooling. If you don’t remember, read the article. Look at who promoted it. Literally no one promoting that bullshit believed that models were underreporting the effects and causes climate change.

The hiding of cooling was implied in the problems in the data/models. It’s a moot point really, the scientists did some dodgy stuff, whether they were exaggerating warming or hiding cooling doesn’t make much difference to their integrity.

Re: Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

#99

Post by brewdad »

petre wrote: post #91
aCoreyJ wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ways to make clouds and have this effect that don't involve sulfur! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_cloud_brightening

You know what happens to soil when it rains salt from the clouds, right? Sulphur at least is more natural, as it's also released by volcanoes. https://extension.psu.edu/sulfur-fertility-management-for-gr...

Good thing we’ve never seen a volcanic eruption impact global temperatures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Pinatubo

Re: Reduction of sulfur emissions from ships may be causing rising sea temperatures

#100

Post by moultano »

This article suggests it probably isn't the main cause: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shippin...

There was also an underwater volcano that put a lot of water vapor in the upper atmosphere that could be a culprit. (On top of the ongoing trend of warming of course.) https://www.carbonbrief.org/tonga-volcano-eruption-raises-im...

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