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Cognitive AI for ADHD

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Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#221

Post by btilly »

Meculitio wrote: post #169
btilly wrote: post #13

I have moderately severe ADHD, and have good reasons to not use medication. My first response to this is that it solves problems that I don't have, and ignores the ones I do have. Organizing my day on paper is trivial. I'm also married to someone with a good partnership, and we offload different types of tasks to each other. She might enjoy having software assistants to be more productive, but I don't need that. I ha…

Doesn't work for me at all. I have high motivation/curiosity and struggle hard to do things even if I know like and enjoy them. Medication helps tremendously with this and I reduced it for a few years and still have behavior patterns I learned on medication

We are each individuals. I just know what works for me and those I care about.

That said, I would not discount that it works. Motivation only works for me if it is either overwhelming, or I'm in a good space. And that mostly means only when I'm in a good space.

Getting into that good space requires keeping my shoulds only things I want for a long enough time to condition my brain to the idea. This is hard to arrange, takes a good while to start working properly, and is easy to accidentally undo. It certainly isn't something I can just turn on.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#222

Post by sudosysgen »

justinc8687 wrote: post #148
sudosysgen wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever wanna go wireless, I find my WF-1000XM4s to be slightly more effective, and it's easier to turn off the isolation.

Have you tried the ER4s? I own both and find the ER4s much more isolating (and for me, as a mainly classical listener, a bunch cleaner sound).

Yes, I did, I used to own ER4s. To be fair, I'm not using the integrated tips and instead use Comply tips.

It may have been that my ears just seal better using foam than with the three flange oddity Etymotic puts on these?

I do agree the Etymotics sound better out of the box, but after using AutoEQ they sound pretty similar.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#223

Post by beardedmoose »

P_I_Staker wrote: post #214
beardedmoose wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With such a vague warning you might want to add more context or references before making those claims. While it may be your opinion or experience that "Psychs are actively trying to ruin your life", those kinds of statements can also deter people who need actual medical help from seeking said help.

Directing people by default, especially ones with ADHD, is equally dangerous. People need to understand the threat to them. "ADHD types" as I understand, are pretty controversial. If you're going to say that one "type" should not get medicine for a morbid condition, you should have a good reason. What happens is a substantial percentage of people with ADHD get hurt by a system that uses them, chews them up, and spits…

Thank you for taking the time to respond and expand. I totally agree with the context you provided as you also see these same types of systems gobbling up many minority groups for profit or puritanical religious reasons.

In my personal experience, my current behavior health provider (which is not a psych) has been very interested in trying to find whatever works to help me get along in this world, be it medication or not. Maybe I got lucky there.

I've always been gotten the impression that ADHD is just another hurdle in my life and that I just have to work harder than more neurotypical people to achieve the same results.

I am curious to know about what age range you are in as I wonder if this is also a generational / parenting difference? I am almost 40 myself and see many hurdles and issues that my kids are facing nowadays which I can't even imagine sometimes.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#224

Post by astrange »

astrange wrote: post #135
ryanklee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hesitant to make any assumptions about your decision to not medicate, but if it has anything to do with addictive properties, you should look into guanfacine. I have very severe ADHD and was unable to use the common medications for the reason listed. This last year I stumbled upon guanfacine, which is usually a blood pressure reduction med, but is prescribed off-label as an ADHD med. It has no noticeable effects…

> No addictive properties. This needs more context, because unlike stimulants, you can't quit guanfacine instantly or you'll feel pretty ill. You have to taper off it for a week or two. Also, you can't drink on it (enjoyably) and it made me feel tired and emotional.

Also, anytime I told a doctor what medications I was taking they'd think I said "guaifenesin" and write it down wrong.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#225

Post by beardedmoose »

btilly wrote: post #217
P_I_Staker wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Directing people by default, especially ones with ADHD, is equally dangerous. People need to understand the threat to them. "ADHD types" as I understand, are pretty controversial. If you're going to say that one "type" should not get medicine for a morbid condition, you should have a good reason. What happens is a substantial percentage of people with ADHD get hurt by a system that uses them, chews them up, and spits…

I have an entire rant about how ADHD kids are abused by the public school system. The worst idea ever is assigning them "monitors". The kid is in a classroom that goes too slow to hold their interest. And there is an adult whose job is to torture them with reminders to return to task every time they get distracted. Guess how well this works? And yet it is a standard IEP intervention used across the country! For less…

Having a child myself with an IEP I absolutely agree with how utterly useless it is and how horribly the system works in practice. It's even worse nowadays as accountability has been completely removed from students and parents leaving the teachers to fend for themselves without help from the administration that collects fat paychecks.

Eat the rich I say, then we can start solving some of societies problems. Until then we are all just walking dollar signs, I imagine ADHD is particularly profitable to companies due to our impulse purchases and lack of executive function.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#226

Post by acchow »

flir wrote: post #158
krono wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific set of symptoms and the diagnosis they would lead to according to the DSM, are in fact rooted in a set of interconnected structural neurological differences in the prefrontal cortex. The ability to recognise when someone might be thirsty, doesn't mean dehydration no longer exists. They go together.

> in a set of interconnected structural neurological differences in the prefrontal cortex. Can you prove that? Because my understanding is that ADHD isn't diagnosable by imaging the brain. If there was a structural difference, presumably it would show up on scans? Or at least post-mortems?

ADHD brains operate differently, which is clearly visible on imaging. However, this is not sufficient for a diagnosis because you still need impairment in your life.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#227

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

swifthesitation wrote: post #215
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with any kind of organisational system like GTD, software like Rescuetime, org-mode, and probably this thing, is that they don't really help me because I don't even have the executive function to get started using them in a structured way in the first place. I'm unable to establish routines, and using these things is just yet another routine to fail at. At least this seems to be free to use. I really hate…

I feel seen... Have you been able to find something that works for you?

Well, medication is the main one.

Besides that, the main thing I've learned is there's no one-size-fits-all type solution. Sit down and pick one thing you want to improve on, the smaller the better. E.g. procrastination of chores is a big issue for me, and there I realised I'd been looking at it from the wrong point of view. Trying to motivate/schedule chores was completely pointless. The real issue was how easy it was to procrastinate it for something else. Once I reframed it as making procrastination harder, solutions were easier to find. One problem was I would just stop by my computer in the morning to check social media or HN or what have you, and end up sitting there for 5 hours doing various things. So I time-locked my computer using pam_time on linux. Sure, I could perfectly well bypass it by booting up a usb stick and editing the configuration, but that would take time, and some planning(gotta find a usb stick, write an ISO from some old laptop, etc). That provided enough friction to stop the impulse to procrastinate, and enough time to stop and realise I actually can't "just check something real quick", I'll always end up moving from distraction to distraction for hours on end. That's the real issue; the time frame where you actually believe that is short, but long enough to get sucked in.

In other words, and it took me years to realise this, the key cause of procrastination is impulsivity, and impulsivity follows the path of least resistance. So if doing the dishes is actually the easiest thing to start doing, that's also what will come to mind.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#228

Post by sureglymop »

btilly wrote: post #213
sureglymop wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with some exceptions. Apps that take the friction out of certain tedious processes could actually help. Think about an app to order the medication easily or an app to set up an appointment with a psychotherapist easily. Think about how those neo bank applications make banking accessible and easier to people (in certain countries or circumstances). For me, even though I generally dislike apps to do certain pro…

I agreed with most of what you said. Right until the end. Medication is a mixed bag. Great for those that it is great for, but not great for others. ADHD is way over diagnosed. Many disorders can cause lack of executive function, and if you have one of those, a specific treatment is better than masking one of the symptoms. Yes. There is a lot to tackle in this lane. But part of it is that we need to clearly understan…

But that's exactly what I meant. There is often a "it is outright bad" mentality, even it is effective and helps certain people. I don't disagree with you.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#229

Post by justinc8687 »

sudosysgen wrote: post #222
justinc8687 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried the ER4s? I own both and find the ER4s much more isolating (and for me, as a mainly classical listener, a bunch cleaner sound).

Yes, I did, I used to own ER4s. To be fair, I'm not using the integrated tips and instead use Comply tips. It may have been that my ears just seal better using foam than with the three flange oddity Etymotic puts on these? I do agree the Etymotics sound better out of the box, but after using AutoEQ they sound pretty similar.

Oh yah, the silicone tips aren't that isolating. The foam ones, however, are magic.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#230

Post by ip26 »

scns wrote: post #153
krono wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder. The symptoms of this disorder are caused by physical differences in the brain, right there in the prefrontal cortex where those responses to inputs are generated. It sometimes happens that I just physically can't bring myself to complete some simple but important chore. That's not because I'm mentally weak, but because my ADHD brain does not provide the right amount of dopamine…

> ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder. At first i wanted to disagree, then i realized why. Disorder means wrongly ordered or sickness. ADHD is classified as such, and if you want treatment, you need to get yourself diagnosed. I really dislike the pathologizing of every neurotype that deviates from the imaginary normal person. I'm pretty sure, if you look closely you'll find something "broken" in everybody. Other pe…

Being fundamentally incapable of feeling content, relaxed, and at ease for more than about three seconds is certainly not the most debilitating thing that could happen to you, and it can make you dogged and tireless, but it’s also not the normal human condition.

It’s a cruel paradox. A constant background of quiet anxiety, permanent absence of satisfaction, risk taking behavior combined with gripping fear of failure, and a perpetual quest for more can be a great adaptation in an unstable and insecure environment. However, it’s not exactly a blessing.

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