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Cognitive AI for ADHD

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Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#101

Post by btilly »

d4mi3n wrote: post #90
btilly wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly a lot of mind-body stuff to develop self-awareness, and adjusting my life, routines, and priorities to fit the needs that I find are not being met. I can ramble on for ages about it. But it is also a highly personal journey - what works for me won't for the next person and vice versa. However KNOWING that it is important is huge.

I found your original comment very informative. Did you pick this up through your own experiences? Would love to hear if you’ve read anything in particular that helped you form a routine that worked for you.

I picked this up through a lifetime of curiosity, a ton of experience, and then trying to be a parent.

Dr. Sabrina Schuck is where I really learned the importance of tying shoulds to wants.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#102

Post by copperx »

btilly wrote: post #58
worstname wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hits the nail on the head for me and why productivity apps usually aren't worth much. > This involves a lot of managing of my emotional state, and a lot of REJECTING of outside demands by the world that I conform to how the world wants me to be. A hallmark of ADHD is emotional dysregulation and impulsivity, so what exactly does rejecting "outside demands" look like? How exactly are you managing emotional state i…

An example of rejecting outside demands is seeking out work environments where I can cooperatively seek out tasks, rather than having someone try to order me to do what they want me to do. If I encounter someone who wants to order me around, I'll ignore if possible. And if not possible, I'll change jobs before complying. Trying to do things because someone is pushing me to do them will result in my becoming resentful…

Have you looked into Pathological Demand Avoidance, a subtype of ASD? I was misdiagnosed with ADHD, but a psychologist steered me in the right direction. What you describe, avoiding demands, both external and internal, deeply resonates with me, and something I've struggled with since childhood. In my case it is certainly not ADHD, and stimulants don't get me unstuck, and sometimes they increase my avoidance. Guanfacine really helps, though.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#103

Post by code_biologist »

btilly wrote: post #13

I have moderately severe ADHD, and have good reasons to not use medication. My first response to this is that it solves problems that I don't have, and ignores the ones I do have. Organizing my day on paper is trivial. I'm also married to someone with a good partnership, and we offload different types of tasks to each other. She might enjoy having software assistants to be more productive, but I don't need that. I ha…

Great video I came across that expresses similar ideas about it being executive function that's the challenge, not attention.

"This is how you treat ADHD based off science, Dr Russell Barkley part of 2012 Burnett Lecture" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tpB-B8BXk0

Edit: here's a newer one by the same speaker "ADHD as Motivation Deficit Disorder" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR3RJU6838c

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#104

Post by andsoitis »

btilly wrote: post #13

I have moderately severe ADHD, and have good reasons to not use medication. My first response to this is that it solves problems that I don't have, and ignores the ones I do have. Organizing my day on paper is trivial. I'm also married to someone with a good partnership, and we offload different types of tasks to each other. She might enjoy having software assistants to be more productive, but I don't need that. I ha…

> moderately severe ADHD

I have a hard time understanding what this means

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#105

Post by ip26 »

acchow wrote: post #77
simplemts wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You nailed it on the end for me as an Adult with ADHD diagnosed in my 30s. Motivation has been my biggest A-Ha with ADHD and trying my absolute best to align what I do with what I want to do otherwise I am setting myself up for failure and others for disappointment with me.

Learning to create motivation is the ultimate hack for insufficient executive function. People tend to think of motivation as some innate property of your person. But it's actually an emotional response to inputs.

It’s more insidious. The condition mucks with your priorities & how you think you should approach problems, so even if you know how to hack yourself to be motivated, will it be for the right things?

As far as I can tell, focus and motivation are just a symptom of the deeper discomfort and anxiety caused by lower neurotransmitter levels. In turn, that shapes your relationship with the world.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#106

Post by i-use-nixos-btw »

andsoitis wrote: post #104
btilly wrote: post #13

I have moderately severe ADHD, and have good reasons to not use medication. My first response to this is that it solves problems that I don't have, and ignores the ones I do have. Organizing my day on paper is trivial. I'm also married to someone with a good partnership, and we offload different types of tasks to each other. She might enjoy having software assistants to be more productive, but I don't need that. I ha…

> moderately severe ADHD I have a hard time understanding what this means

It seems like a contradiction, but is not.

Many things are measured on a scale that goes from mild, to moderate, to moderately severe, to severe.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#107

Post by btilly »

code_biologist wrote: post #103
btilly wrote: post #13

I have moderately severe ADHD, and have good reasons to not use medication. My first response to this is that it solves problems that I don't have, and ignores the ones I do have. Organizing my day on paper is trivial. I'm also married to someone with a good partnership, and we offload different types of tasks to each other. She might enjoy having software assistants to be more productive, but I don't need that. I ha…

Great video I came across that expresses similar ideas about it being executive function that's the challenge, not attention. "This is how you treat ADHD based off science, Dr Russell Barkley part of 2012 Burnett Lecture" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tpB-B8BXk0 Edit: here's a newer one by the same speaker "ADHD as Motivation Deficit Disorder" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR3RJU6838c

I've seen that first video before.

He does fine until he starts spouting dogma about what all interventions must look like. That part is BS. BY FAR the most effective intervention that I've seen for ADHD in children is https://www.cdc.uci.edu/. It does none of what he claims you need to do. And it routinely takes people who can't perform in a normal classroom, and turns them into people who can.

I just watched a bit of the second video.

One problem with his model. One of the classic presentations of ADHD is hyperfocus. A state in which everything he says about ADHD is wrong.

The problem with both videos is that he is focused on control as accomplished through executive control. But there is a second path towards emotional control involving dealing with our emotions. And if you succeed in THAT, then your basic emotional makeup is supporting your self-control. Rather than imposing control through executive function, your executive function is being supported by your emotional makeup.

I've found this to be a far more effective way to do things. But it requires unlearning a whole lot about how we think that things should be done.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#108

Post by krono »

acchow wrote: post #77
simplemts wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You nailed it on the end for me as an Adult with ADHD diagnosed in my 30s. Motivation has been my biggest A-Ha with ADHD and trying my absolute best to align what I do with what I want to do otherwise I am setting myself up for failure and others for disappointment with me.

Learning to create motivation is the ultimate hack for insufficient executive function. People tend to think of motivation as some innate property of your person. But it's actually an emotional response to inputs.

ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder. The symptoms of this disorder are caused by physical differences in the brain, right there in the prefrontal cortex where those responses to inputs are generated.

It sometimes happens that I just physically can't bring myself to complete some simple but important chore. That's not because I'm mentally weak, but because my ADHD brain does not provide the right amount of dopamine which everyone else with a more typical brain would get.

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#109

Post by chipuni »

jasoncurry wrote: post #2

Hi, we just started building a few weeks ago but have about 700 beta users. We are building the most effective specialized AI for ADHD. We're in private beta but feel free to see our site that links to our Chrome extension and try it out if it sounds like something you need.

Cool.

1. What factors in ADHD is this product supposed to treat? 2. How are you measuring the effectiveness of this tool? 3. What other tools for ADHD are you comparing against? 4. How do you manage HIPAA protections? What physical, network, and process security measures are you using?

Re: Cognitive AI for ADHD

#110

Post by btilly »

copperx wrote: post #102
btilly wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example of rejecting outside demands is seeking out work environments where I can cooperatively seek out tasks, rather than having someone try to order me to do what they want me to do. If I encounter someone who wants to order me around, I'll ignore if possible. And if not possible, I'll change jobs before complying. Trying to do things because someone is pushing me to do them will result in my becoming resentful…

Have you looked into Pathological Demand Avoidance, a subtype of ASD? I was misdiagnosed with ADHD, but a psychologist steered me in the right direction. What you describe, avoiding demands, both external and internal, deeply resonates with me, and something I've struggled with since childhood. In my case it is certainly not ADHD, and stimulants don't get me unstuck, and sometimes they increase my avoidance. Guanfaci…

I have not. But looking at it, that is clearly not a fit for me.

I've always had a pretty classic presentation of ADHD. Demands were hard for me to comply with, but I never lacked a willingness to comply when I could.

The pushing back against demands that I am describing is a coping mechanism that I find improves my self-control. But I don't avoid demands. In fact I make a lot of demands of myself - as long as they are tied to accomplishing things that I want.

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