Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 211 posts

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#131

Post by nuancebydefault »

Astronaut3315 wrote: post #76
molsongolden wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The additional capacity might be wanted in cold climates. The massive range drop when running the cabin heater plus slow charging in cold environments definitely makes me pause when considering an EV.

I’ve found that the range of my EV is overkill in summer and about right in winter. I live in Minnesota, USA where the winters tend to be cold.

First time I encountered range and overkill in the same sentence. Does your car contain breakthrough battery technology? Solid state maybe? Also, is electricity plenty cheap where you charge?

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#132

Post by nuancebydefault »

ninkendo wrote: post #26
asdff wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like having extra capacity even if they scarcely use that capacity. This is why the F150 is the best selling car in America. Not to mention its better in general to have extra battery capacity than you might reasonably need today, as it will degrade with age, or temperature.

It's also why the F150 lightning appears to be an absolute flop: Its range goes to crap when you're towing, and people who want F150's at least think of themselves as people who want to be able to tow. (Actual towing with F150's is likely low, but most people who buy one, want to have the option.)

The few times you tow, you typically need full range, or what do you try to say?

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#134

Post by oblio »

sheepshear wrote: post #125
oblio wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that energy density, can't they just wrap the entire smaller battery in 2 layers of ceramic and steel or something and just side-step the entire safety discussion OP is mentioning? Yes, I know it's probably a silly solution :-)

The premise is that the enclosure is already somehow breeched. Squeezing a battery is bad and it makes bad situations worse.

The thing is, batteries can weight half a ton. At triple the energy density they could almost armor plate it to tank levels. I imagine most of us aren't under Javelin attack during road trips :-p

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#135

Post by ytdytvhxgydvhh »

achiang wrote: post #130
megaman821 wrote: post #12

This will be neat if it works but really there isn't going to be a huge market for 500+ mile cars vs the cost savings of getting a 300-400 mile car. The exception might be road-trippers and people who do a lot of towing but I suspect that is a much smaller population than people tend to think.

Real world usage is you only get to use ~70% of the stated range on a road trip, so we're really talking about 350 miles of range, which is, as you say, what most people actually want. Why 70%? You obviously don't run the battery to zero, 10% is a common amount of buffer to leave. And then when you DC fast charge, the rate of charging drops dramatically around 80%, so people don't charge to full. These are for ideal…

Well the Lucid Air with the big battery could probably make that drive no sweat, but that’s out of reach to almost everyone.

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#136

Post by chungy »

_ea1k wrote: post #103
ninkendo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also why the F150 lightning appears to be an absolute flop: Its range goes to crap when you're towing, and people who want F150's at least think of themselves as people who want to be able to tow. (Actual towing with F150's is likely low, but most people who buy one, want to have the option.)

> people who want F150's at least think of themselves as people who want to be able to tow I've only found this to be true on the internet. In the real world, it is much less common. Lots of people realize that their truck is just the commuter and home depot stuff hauler.

At least it still performs well at the "Home Depot stuff hauler" part. A sedan is absolutely impossible to work for that use case.

(Ok: I'm a bit defensive. There's a concerted Internet effort over the past year to paint all pickups as a status symbol without justification, as if every empty bed or fresh-from-the-car-wash truck is proof that the owner doesn't need it. Even if you just move furniture every so often, I totally disagree with the sentiment. If I can afford two vehicles, a pickup and sedan would be a good combo; for now, just a pickup is good.)

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#137

Post by moogly »

jacobgorm wrote: post #98
oblio wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The floor for EVs is very high. In Europe people frequently buy compact cars. Let's take VW Golf as an example. The lightest version of the current model weighs 1300kg, more or less. The EV equivalent, ID.3, weighs 1800kg. That's 500kg extra (!) which is almost 40% more. That's an insane amount of extra weight for a small car. The percentage difference becomes less for bigger cars, so I imagine that's why some Americ…

Meanwhile, the BMW i3 weights between 1245 kg to 1441 kg, depending on configuration, battery size, and presence of optional range extender engine, showing what is possible when companies bother to optimize for weight savings.

I doubt the i3 was profitable, which is probably why they discontinued it. It was basically a sort of production concept car.

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#139

Post by coderenegade »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #132
ninkendo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also why the F150 lightning appears to be an absolute flop: Its range goes to crap when you're towing, and people who want F150's at least think of themselves as people who want to be able to tow. (Actual towing with F150's is likely low, but most people who buy one, want to have the option.)

The few times you tow, you typically need full range, or what do you try to say?

If your range is shot because you're towing, it's probably a lot worse to have to recharge at a public charger with your boat on the back than it is to stop at a gas station. Keeping in mind of course that the limitations of charging mean you're also having to do this dance more frequently.

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#140

Post by tomtheelder »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #131
Astronaut3315 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found that the range of my EV is overkill in summer and about right in winter. I live in Minnesota, USA where the winters tend to be cold.

First time I encountered range and overkill in the same sentence. Does your car contain breakthrough battery technology? Solid state maybe? Also, is electricity plenty cheap where you charge?

I agree with the previous commenter. If you level 2 charge at home you have to drive a pretty preposterous distance to ever have range issues. Road trips are another story, but they are infrequent.
Post reply on HN