Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

Post by kstrauser » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 8:28 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #404

kbos87 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That strikes me as a pretty dissonant argument on HN. If we play that out, no software creator would have a defensible way to monetize what they invested time, energy and money to create. Enforceable laws protecting IP are the difference between entire sectors of the economy existing vs. not being worth the effort.

I don't think that's true at all, or what the person you're replying to is getting at. If you sell me a bunch of hardware, that hardware is now mine, and I should be able to do whatever I want with it. If you sell that hardware with a bunch of software on it, I should again be able to do anything I want with that software. That doesn't entitle me to updates of that software, or ongoing use of the company's cloud infr…

Post by Eisenstein » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 8:29 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #389

alistairSH wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's relatively clear to me... Features cost money, so I should pay for them. Wether that's via an option package (traditional) at order time OR via a software update (Tesla) after purchase doesn't matter. BUT! As long as that feature doesn't have recurring costs to the manufacturer (heated seats), it should be a one-time fee, and transfer with ownership. Something like self-driving, where there might be an active in…

> Hacking otherwise reasonable software-locked features feels like theft to me. I disagree, pretty strongly. There is a line. They sold you something in its entirety, including the seats with wires. I would agree with you if you had to download the control software from their servers. I would agree with you if you if the upgrade provided you physical wires to install, even if you had to install them. Related I think…

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 8:30 PM UTC

yreg wrote: post #222

LesZedCB wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so make them all cost the same then.....?

No. I don't need the rear heated seats.

Post by Eisenstein » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 8:31 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #408

Cagrosso wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the feature is built in to the car from the factory and disabled via software so they can charge more then you are already paying for the parts and lugging around the added weight in the vehicle thus costing you more in fuel. Software locking a hardware feature that is integrated is an awful practice. Telsa chose to do this presumably to only have to buy a single seat configuration and streamline installs so they…

For many features it makes sense. Heated seats for example have trivial hardware costs. It's basically a couple resistive wires, plus the necessary controls. The process costs of manufacturing some cars with and some without heated seats likely far exceed the cost of the heated seats themselves, so it's cheaper to just put them in every car. But heated seats are a great upselling opportunity, people are willing to pa…

Post by mrguyorama » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 8:32 PM UTC

mgiampapa wrote: post #196

vessenes wrote: post #47

Pretty sophisticated attack vector: low voltage attack on AMD secure execution environment during boot. I wonder how many tries you need to get whatever bits you need in the right place. Also, I imagine you only need to cut 12V wires to do this, but I admire the willingness to get in there direct on these systems. I'd be a little nervous to make those cuts personally. Buried in the article is the claim that this will…

Just like we used to have cable box guys willing to sell you an unlocked box for premium channels, we are eventually going to have feature unlock guys that you go do and for a small fee perform some slightly more technical hack to enable features that are already there.