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Solar panel made with ion cannon is cheap enough to challenge fossil fuels

extremetech.com

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Re: Solar panel made with ion cannon is cheap enough to challenge fossil fuels

#41

Post by greedo »

nextparadigms wrote: post #23

This is why I welcomed the backlash and even some of the sensationalism regarding the nuclear explosion in Japan. Even if I realize that nuclear energy could be safe and it's good to have an alternative that is cheap enough to compete with coal, I'd still wish we'd spend all those billions switching from nuclear and putting most of them into renewable energy technologies, which should be the future. The arguments aga…

The idea that solar, wind and geothermal energy can replace nuclear power for electricity generation in my lifetime (the next 35 years) ignores the reality of how much electricity we consume and how it is currently generated.

Here's a link to a graph created by the Lawrence Livermore Lab that quickly illustrates the miniscule impact of doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling the three primary alternative energy sources.

I wish we could all live in a world powered by solar cells etc, but it just isn't going to happen.

Re: Solar panel made with ion cannon is cheap enough to challenge fossil fuels

#42

Post by jpitz »

saalweachter wrote: post #10
brlewis wrote: post #3

The article says we still need better battery technology, and there's truth to that. But even without batteries, just providing power on days when air conditioners run continuously, solar could make a huge difference in the energy picture.

Or only burning coal at night. Once solar is significantly cheaper than coal and demand pricing kicks in, a lot of time-shifting of energy use could occur. Right now, night-time electricity is cheaper because demand is lower at night, but if the supply of daylight electricity increases dramatically, any activity which currently benefits from cheap nighttime electricity could be shifted back to the daylight hours. Dat…

> Or only burning coal at night.

Coal power is a base load technology. Spin up time for a coal plant is too long for it to work well for night time use only.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load_power_plant

Re: Solar panel made with ion cannon is cheap enough to challenge fossil fuels

#43

Post by maxerickson »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #36
ctdonath wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

power output from wind/solar plants is random (depends on things like cloud cover ...) and it causes problems in power grid, where power demand must meet the supply exactly The biggest power cost for us in warmer climates is cooling. When the sun is out, we need lots of power; when it's not, not so much. Solar power sufficient to run A/C from rooftop panels costing less than grid electricity would be wonderful, linin…

Especially if one would switch to heat pumps, which can do both heating and cooling, providing/removing 3 to 5 times more heat than electricity they use up to do so. Amazing technology, by the way :).

Most air conditioners are heat pumps configured to work in one direction, using outside air as a temperature sink.

(I realize that this is at least borderline pedantry)

Re: Solar panel made with ion cannon is cheap enough to challenge fossil fuels

#45

Post by danielharan »

greedo wrote: post #41
nextparadigms wrote: post #23

This is why I welcomed the backlash and even some of the sensationalism regarding the nuclear explosion in Japan. Even if I realize that nuclear energy could be safe and it's good to have an alternative that is cheap enough to compete with coal, I'd still wish we'd spend all those billions switching from nuclear and putting most of them into renewable energy technologies, which should be the future. The arguments aga…

The idea that solar, wind and geothermal energy can replace nuclear power for electricity generation in my lifetime (the next 35 years) ignores the reality of how much electricity we consume and how it is currently generated. Here's a link to a graph created by the Lawrence Livermore Lab that quickly illustrates the miniscule impact of doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling the three primary alternative energy sourc…

Only we're doubling production of wind turbines every 2-3 years. With each doubling, prices come down, as they do with every other manufactured artifact from computers to TVs to washing machines.

Look out for 35 years. Is it still minuscule?

Re: Solar panel made with ion cannon is cheap enough to challenge fossil fuels

#46

Post by sovande »

[..] cost of around 40 cents per watt, about half the cost of panels currently coming out of China (where the vast majority of solar panels are made)

To me, this is the second cool part of the story. It shows that we can still do industrial enterprises in the west by applying technology. Sooner or later the production and assembly industry will have no more cheap labor forces to "exploit" on the globe and production, assembly and automaton technology may (again) be an industrial game changer for the west as it was with "spinning jenny".

Re: Solar panel made with ion cannon is cheap enough to challenge fossil fuels

#47

Post by danmaz74 »

greedo wrote: post #41
nextparadigms wrote: post #23

This is why I welcomed the backlash and even some of the sensationalism regarding the nuclear explosion in Japan. Even if I realize that nuclear energy could be safe and it's good to have an alternative that is cheap enough to compete with coal, I'd still wish we'd spend all those billions switching from nuclear and putting most of them into renewable energy technologies, which should be the future. The arguments aga…

The idea that solar, wind and geothermal energy can replace nuclear power for electricity generation in my lifetime (the next 35 years) ignores the reality of how much electricity we consume and how it is currently generated. Here's a link to a graph created by the Lawrence Livermore Lab that quickly illustrates the miniscule impact of doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling the three primary alternative energy sourc…

But renewable energies could replace nuclear (and other sources) for new plants that will be built in the future. Nuclear has a very high initial cost, and shutting down current plants while they're still efficient and safe enough wouldn't be a sound choice, but for replacements of ageing plants and for new constructions cheaper and cheaper renewable energies could realistically displace them in the next decades.

Re: Solar panel made with ion cannon is cheap enough to challenge fossil fuels

#48

Post by danielharan »

saalweachter wrote: post #10
brlewis wrote: post #3

The article says we still need better battery technology, and there's truth to that. But even without batteries, just providing power on days when air conditioners run continuously, solar could make a huge difference in the energy picture.

Or only burning coal at night. Once solar is significantly cheaper than coal and demand pricing kicks in, a lot of time-shifting of energy use could occur. Right now, night-time electricity is cheaper because demand is lower at night, but if the supply of daylight electricity increases dramatically, any activity which currently benefits from cheap nighttime electricity could be shifted back to the daylight hours. Dat…

Data centers most assuredly do not use 2% of electricity. That's a made up stat by fossil fuel industry lobbyists and repeated by server vendors.

Re: Solar panel made with ion cannon is cheap enough to challenge fossil fuels

#49

Post by johapers »

ck2 wrote: post #4

That is some amazing technology right there, almost fun to read because it sounds like science fiction but it's real. And privately designed/built/owned particle accelerators? It's definitely a new era. What if one day the other side of the globe getting sunlight powered the grid for the other half? Of course this would require very peaceful nations on each continent, so even if we had the cost-effective technology n…

The technology is very similar to what SOItech is doing for Silicon on insulator wafers: http://www.soitec.com/en/technologies/smart-cut/

Re: Solar panel made with ion cannon is cheap enough to challenge fossil fuels

#50

Post by srdev »

greedo wrote: post #41
nextparadigms wrote: post #23

This is why I welcomed the backlash and even some of the sensationalism regarding the nuclear explosion in Japan. Even if I realize that nuclear energy could be safe and it's good to have an alternative that is cheap enough to compete with coal, I'd still wish we'd spend all those billions switching from nuclear and putting most of them into renewable energy technologies, which should be the future. The arguments aga…

The idea that solar, wind and geothermal energy can replace nuclear power for electricity generation in my lifetime (the next 35 years) ignores the reality of how much electricity we consume and how it is currently generated. Here's a link to a graph created by the Lawrence Livermore Lab that quickly illustrates the miniscule impact of doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling the three primary alternative energy sourc…

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think you provided a link.
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