If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity • Hacker News Board

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#711

Post by lbschenkel » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

Macha wrote: post #111

xtracto wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote time. Ten years ago I (Mexican, living in Mexico, a bit "white-er" than the average Mexican skin color) worked for a Silicon Valley startup with HQs in Mountain View. One time I was visiting said HQ, I met several people, I got to talk with one of them (Chinese/Asiatic looking woman) about how I was moving while I was there, and where was I staying (she didn't know where I was from). At some point I told her…

Yeah, I had a similar experience as a European travelling to the US. My coworkers were horrified at the idea that I'd take a bus.

Same for me. I visited my company's US branch in San Francisco (I work in Copenhagen) and the colleagues there were horrified that I was planning to walk to a nearby Best Buy (~10 minutes walk). They didn't actually let me do it — they insisted to give me a car ride until I relented.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#712

Post by thebradbain » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:28 PM UTC

brightlancer wrote: post #456

thebradbain wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that a lot of the “crime, drug use, and general anti-social behavior” on transit is overblown in the very minds of people who don’t take transit regularly. Sure, in the US it’s nowhere near as pleasant as it could (or should) be, but it’s really not that bad, nor as slow as people with a car imagine it is. My realtor said I was the only person she’s worked with who has ever bought a house that does…

> The funny thing is that a lot of the “crime, drug use, and general anti-social behavior” on transit is overblown in the very minds of people who don’t take transit regularly. Yes, it's unheard of that folks can become accustomed to circumstances which most people would view as abnormal or dangerous. I've been riding public transit almost my entire life; I started riding _by myself_ when I was 8 so I could get to an…

I didn’t say it wasn’t pleasant— there’s so many ways transit comfort and safety could be improved — but it’s really not as bad as people who have never taken a train or bus, and never will regardless of how comfortable it is, say it is

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#713

Post by iggldiggl » Fri, Aug 04, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

dymk wrote: post #661

brightlancer wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand Mass transit will NOT reduce auto transit: any driver who chooses to take mass transit will be replaced by a new driver on the road.

Go read the page you just linked, but more closely. Induced demand is relevant to adding more car lanes, not dedicated bus lanes and other off-grade transit. Civilized countries already solved this problem.

Freed-up capacity is freed-up capacity, no matter whether it was created by building an additional lane or by motivating some people to switch to alternative modes of transport. If enough people switch to public transport to noticeable reduce congestion, the reduced congestion makes driving more attractive again, so some people will switch back to driving, or people who used to drive anyway will now make longer trips, etc.

So if you're just building out transit while keeping road capacity the same (less common with dedicated bus lanes or light rail, because space for those is often created by converting former car lanes, but with "other off-grade transit" modes you need to make a conscious effort of reducing road capacity if reduced car usage is your goal), it's entirely possible that public transport use increases, while passenger miles travelled by car remain the roughly same long-term.