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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

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Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#121

Post by striking »

vessenes wrote: post #47

Pretty sophisticated attack vector: low voltage attack on AMD secure execution environment during boot. I wonder how many tries you need to get whatever bits you need in the right place. Also, I imagine you only need to cut 12V wires to do this, but I admire the willingness to get in there direct on these systems. I'd be a little nervous to make those cuts personally. Buried in the article is the claim that this will…

> I wonder how many tries you need to get whatever bits you need in the right place.

For the Xbox 360, the "Reset Glitch Hack" (which worked similarly) would just try over and over again until it got it right. A computer is happy to try tens or hundreds of times on your behalf.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#122

Post by fragmede »

The real question is Tesla Supercharger capability. If you can't plug your car into that network, then you've lost a ton of value. But here's the thing. In order to disable supercharging, Tesla remotes into your vehicle to turn it off. It doesn't happen on the charger side, it happens on the vehicle. So if you have root on your Tesla, you can make sure you can always supercharge, which isn't mentioned anywhere else.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#123

Post by d4l3k »

judge2020 wrote: post #69
vessenes wrote: post #47

Pretty sophisticated attack vector: low voltage attack on AMD secure execution environment during boot. I wonder how many tries you need to get whatever bits you need in the right place. Also, I imagine you only need to cut 12V wires to do this, but I admire the willingness to get in there direct on these systems. I'd be a little nervous to make those cuts personally. Buried in the article is the claim that this will…

Anonymizing your location - until you put in route and your car asks for traffic information from teslas servers.

If the map can't talk to Tesla it'll use Google maps directly. I usually don't allow connections to Tesla on my rooted Model 3

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#124

Post by freejazz »

tadfisher wrote: post #33
toomuchtodo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So contract law and copyright aren't a thing because people don't want it to be? You own the hardware (you can shuck the car, part it out, mod it), you don't own the code it runs. By all means, root the car and take the features you want, but don't be shocked when Tesla either a) nukes the features remotely or b) sues you. You are taking issue with an existing legal and contract law framework. No one is forcing you t…

Contract law is running afoul of the first-sale doctrine here. Tesla can not enforce many clauses in a potential contract or license via the legal system, so it's not as cut-and-dry as "you don't own the code". Copyright has zero application here unless you redistribute Tesla's code or binaries. Reverse-engineering is a legal practice (in US law, at least).

Using software without the license to is copyright infringement, full stop.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#125

Post by semiquaver »

carstenhag wrote: post #3
HWR_14 wrote: post #2

Good. People who buy things should own the things they buy.

But they don't own the license to use the software (Full Self Driving). I agree with you about the heated seats though.

The article claims this is not patchable but it also says that the hackers have not yet unlocked FSD with this technique. I strongly suspect that the “unpatchable” part would not apply to any potential FSD unlock because of the large amount of server-side functionality involved for FSD. Server side components aren’t going to be easily fooled by a car-local exploit.

Knowing Tesla, even if they can’t patch the vulnerability OTA I would be very concerned about their being able to detect the use of this bypass and remote-brick cars in response until the customer agrees to bring their car in for a hardware patch.

Edit: a now-dead reply says there is no server side functionality whatsoever for FSD. I don’t own a Tesla but find it very unlikely that FSD has not even usage telemetry in what are otherwise highly connected cars.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#126

Post by samstave »

HWR_14 wrote: post #2

Good. People who buy things should own the things they buy.

I won all my groceries, but once I consume them, they still turn to shit.

-

I think we need to hold all EV companies "responsible for their shit"

So, if you buy a tesla - only tesla should be responsible for recovery from every crash and and turn in.

Thus the environmental impact due to the heavy metals and all the plastics made are sole responsible from a closed, boring lopp to hyper the link to the fact that all these materials were made by stars. X.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#127

Post by HWR_14 »

shmatt wrote: post #117
prussian wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to add agreement to this, but to be more precise: people should own the things they buy and artificial (software ) means of locking people out of features shouldn't be allowed.

If you opt out of the heated seat package when you purchase the car, that doesn't mean the manufacturer can't add that hardware in a disabled state. That also doesn't mean you own the heating feature after you opted out That's like asking Intel to fix a processor you overclocked

The far better analogy for what Tesla is doing is "it's like Intel preventing you from overclocking your chip". Sure, you should not expect support for your hacked seat warmers.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#128

Post by martin8412 »

code_runner wrote: post #109
rvnx wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never has been Tesla’s responsibility if the FSD fails (whereas for Mercedes they take responsibility)

I think the mercedes taking responsibility thing was at least partially clever marketing. there are really extreme limitations last I saw, which honestly is understandable.

The limitations are due to the legal framework Mercedes lives up to. The updated version only recently came out.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#129

Post by nvr219 »

shmatt wrote: post #117
prussian wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to add agreement to this, but to be more precise: people should own the things they buy and artificial (software ) means of locking people out of features shouldn't be allowed.

If you opt out of the heated seat package when you purchase the car, that doesn't mean the manufacturer can't add that hardware in a disabled state. That also doesn't mean you own the heating feature after you opted out That's like asking Intel to fix a processor you overclocked

If I paid them money and they gave me hardware (in this case a heated seat) then I can do what I want with it, sucks for them if they don't want me to. They can give me the non-heated seat. And yeah if I brick my car trying to jailbreak it that's on me, fine.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#130

Post by zoover2020 »

d4l3k wrote: post #123
judge2020 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anonymizing your location - until you put in route and your car asks for traffic information from teslas servers.

If the map can't talk to Tesla it'll use Google maps directly. I usually don't allow connections to Tesla on my rooted Model 3

Hoe did you root yours? Did you lose out on any functionality?
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