Yahoo Crosses The Line • Hacker News Board

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#111

Post by corin_ » Tue, Mar 13, 2012, 3:07 PM UTC

CPlatypus wrote: post #64

route66 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fred's official standpoint is here (the slug already says it): http://www.usv.com/2010/02/software-patents-are-the-problem-... Of course it is not clear if he lives up to that stance in all cases ( http://www.usv.com/investments/ ) , but I read CPlatypus' statement more as pointing out the structural problem.

That's not Fred's official standpoint. The author is Brad Burnham.

Funny that him being a VC is specific enough to argue your case, yet an official blog post from his company, written by a partner of his, is a little too vague and probably doesn't represent his opinion.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#112

Post by shasta » Tue, Mar 13, 2012, 3:07 PM UTC

markokocic wrote: post #72

Well, I don't agree with the author. Why would it be ok for Yahoo and other big companies to use patents "only" to threaten small shops and keep the status quo? Let them fight between eachother, let Yahoo sue Facebook sue Gooogle sue Microsoft sue Apple sue HTC sue Samsung sue Sony sue Oracle sue ... let everyone sue everyone else. Let the total war on patents begin. Let the big players burn a ton of money on pointle…

Right, because that's what they're going to push through: legislation that levels the playing field.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#113

Post by endersshadow » Tue, Mar 13, 2012, 3:09 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #109

endersshadow wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies like Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, and IBM which hold a huge number of software patents and aren't exactly keen on seeing that system go away, either. But yes, big pharma relies almost exclusively on patents to recoup R&D costs.

> But yes, big pharma relies almost exclusively on patents to recoup R&D costs. What? I was under the impression that they rely mostly on advertising to recoup costs, their advertising budgets are generally much larger than their R&D budgets.

Coincidentally, I just posted a huge rant against, "It's just marketing" in another thread, but I'll respond to this much less rantier.

Big pharma uses patents to protect their monopoly on a drug for seven(?) years after its introduced. Once that window is up, generics come in and take a huge chunk of sales. Pharma uses marketing and advertising to push their new drugs to try to sell as many during the patent window as they possibly can, when they have a large markup on it.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#114

Post by brudgers » Tue, Mar 13, 2012, 3:10 PM UTC

fredwilson wrote: post #99

CPlatypus wrote: post #11

The OP wouldn't seem quite so hypocritical if VCs didn't put immense pressure on startups to generate patents. Don't tell me those patents are supposed to be purely defensive, either. They were supposed to stake out a bit of technical turf, just like Yahoo's doing. I'm not saying it's right, but I don't think much of demanding patent generation on one hand and then complaining about their use on the other. If you wan…

we don't do that at USV and never have. i agree that the VC industry is guilty of that practice, but we are not.

I don't think that in general the practice is something over which the VC industry should feel guilty. Venture Capital has historically and continues to fund industries where patents are appropriate, e.g. semiconductors.

Software patents are problematic, but only because of the general features of the patent process and the fiduciary responsibilities of boards of directors to their shareholders.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#115

Post by jazzsax » Tue, Mar 13, 2012, 3:10 PM UTC

viggity wrote: post #6

I really don't like saying this, but here it goes: Don't hate the player, hate the game. We need real, substantive patent reform in this country.

what sort of substantive analysis of the patents in this case have you done to justify claiming that this case indicates we need patent reform?

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#116

Post by wavephorm » Tue, Mar 13, 2012, 3:11 PM UTC

Hoff wrote: post #101

Fred Being Fred aside... Yahoo! could be aiming to be acquired by Facebook or Google. Assuming the patents involved are tenable, this looks rather like a viable reverse-acquisition strategy.

But this really isn't the way to make any friends.

I'd be surprised if anyone wants to do business with people like this ever again.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#117

Post by brudgers » Tue, Mar 13, 2012, 3:13 PM UTC

spolsky wrote: post #93

CPlatypus wrote: post #11

The OP wouldn't seem quite so hypocritical if VCs didn't put immense pressure on startups to generate patents. Don't tell me those patents are supposed to be purely defensive, either. They were supposed to stake out a bit of technical turf, just like Yahoo's doing. I'm not saying it's right, but I don't think much of demanding patent generation on one hand and then complaining about their use on the other. If you wan…

Union Square Ventures, of which Fred Wilson ("the OP") is a partner, is an investor in my startup (Stack Exchange). They never put pressure on us to generate patents. They have been consistently anti-patent for quite some time. They have complained frequently that a third of their portfolio is under attack from patent trolls. They have organized fundraisers and meetings which I have attended with Senator Chuck Schume…

As a publicly traded company, Yahoo does not have the same discretion as a company like StackExchange.

I also suspect that startups capable of the sophistication StackExchange brings to the selection of a VC are a distinct minority.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#118

Post by pullo » Tue, Mar 13, 2012, 3:14 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #108

Sounds like it is finally time to migrate off flickr. I wonder what the best options are -- self hosting of full res, plus FB Photos for social? Is Picasa worthwhile?

same sentiment here. I've been using y! mail for a decade. Y! 'wall streetish' behavior is a good incentive to sever all ties. I am also certain , lot of their portal traffic comes when users are redirected to the portal home page when users sign off their ymail accnts.

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#119

Post by Jach » Tue, Mar 13, 2012, 3:16 PM UTC

endersshadow wrote: post #89

tytso wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more we have companies blatantly showing how unproductive and how software patents are actually hurting innovation, the more likely it is that change will happen. Just remember though that right now the pharmaceutical companies are massively outspending the technology sector as far as lobbying Congress. (A Senator is a wonderful thing --- everyone should own one!) As a Google employee I can contribute to Google N…

Companies like Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, and IBM which hold a huge number of software patents and aren't exactly keen on seeing that system go away, either. But yes, big pharma relies almost exclusively on patents to recoup R&D costs.

R&D costs actually make up a pretty small portion of the pie. It's unclear what if anything patents are doing to recoup those since they're all just copying each other with designer drugs that are just slightly different enough to not violate someone else's patent. The pharma industry is probably a better example than the software industry for why patents suck. http://www.dklevine.com/papers/imbookfinal09.pdf

Re: Yahoo Crosses The Line

#120

Post by frou_dh » Tue, Mar 13, 2012, 3:16 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #43

bambax wrote: post #13

> I used to care about that company for some reason That's the strangest part. I never found Yahoo useful for anything (except Douglas Crockford, but he could have been employed anywhere).

Yahoo! Pipes is extremely useful.

Hell yeah. Very cool service.

I mainly use it to correct strangeness in sites' RSS offerings. For example, BBC iPlayer offers feeds for channels but not per show (?!), and Penny Arcade doesn't offer a feed for just the comic without the news posts.