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Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

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Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#261

You should be as comfortable running the (proposed) attestator on your machine as you are running anti-virus software. In thinking about it relative to anti-virus, I came across an insight: The Web Environment Integrity proposal isn't much different than requiring that, in order to receive an email, the sender both secures their machine with anti-virus and provides proof to you, the receiver, that the message in ques…

In that analogy, who provides the antivirus? Can you only use antivirus from certain vendors? Does the company providing antivirus have motives(eg:-selling ads) other than securing your computer?

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#262
post #17

It's time to start lobbying hard for an antitrust breakup of Google. This DRM plan, as abuse of a monopoly position, provides more political coverage for a forced breakup. It's pretty clear how to break up Alphabet, because it grew mostly by acquisition. - Google - search, ads on search pages and nothing more. - DoubleClick - third party ads on other sites. - Analytics - services to web sites. - Cloud - the money-los…

>it's not in Chrome's interest to prevent blocking ads from DoubleClick or Google But it would still be in their interest in preventing ad fraud on the web.

Why? Users don't care about ad fraud and neither should the user agent.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#263
I've been wary of Google for a while now, and this is further proof my wariness is justified. However, one thing I can't seem to kick is using Google search as a fallback.

I use DuckDuckGo or Brave search for most of my searches, but half the time I have to add "!g" to the search to switch to Google to get actually useful results. Does anyone have any tips or tricks (or search engines I'm unfamiliar with) so I can break free? I know Bing is technically an option, but I'm under the impression it's not much better than Google (privacy wise) and their AI integration is off-putting.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#264
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you split the search and ads divisions into two companies, what prevents them from entering into a partnership and keep doing whatever they do now?

Enshittifying search to serve ads' end goals/margins will go against the search company's shareholder interest, and they can be sued for that.

Not if ads' pays them to do it!

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#265
post #15

In 2012, I interviewed at Google Ireland for an SRE position. I ended up not taking the job due to family issues, but I somewhat regretted having missed the opportunity to tackle Google-sized problems and make FAANG-sized money for a few years after. This feeling has ceased entirely in the meantime, due to what Google has become, and how its understanding of its role in the world seems to have shifted. Or maybe its t…

It's also been a massive boost to FOSS as well. I don't think Google is a single entity with a true nature. It's just people deciding things. Sometimes we get VP8 open sourced, a world-level value adding move. Sometimes we get them running an experiment whose intentions should've been better articulated.

Certainly, there are many incredibly talented and passionate programmers there. These people want to make interesting things and many of them want to share them with the world. The company has gotten to where it is by being an exciting place to work for these people and supporting their endeavours.

But let's not fool ourselves, Google at the end of the day is still an ad company. So while we can appreciate what they've contributed using this approach, we can never ignore the fact that ultimately business priorities will always trump everything else, which means they can use their creations against us on the turn of a dime.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#266

You should be as comfortable running the (proposed) attestator on your machine as you are running anti-virus software. In thinking about it relative to anti-virus, I came across an insight: The Web Environment Integrity proposal isn't much different than requiring that, in order to receive an email, the sender both secures their machine with anti-virus and provides proof to you, the receiver, that the message in ques…

I don't think this is a good analogy. The WEI proposal is different to anti-virus in many ways. The fundamental ones are:

1) WEI doesn't attest that your device isn't running malware, it attests that your device is running a particular set of software -- it is a positive filter, rather than a negative one. This means that you can't run your own software (if it's part of the WEI trust chain), even if you know it's not malware, without changing the attestation (and see the next point for why this isn't viable).

2) Because WEI doesn't have a way to prove that software is malicious or not, it instead requires you to trust the attestor (in a cryptographically secure way). In the usual case, this will mean trusting Google. This means that if I write my own attestor, there is no particular reason that people should trust what it says. On the other hand, there are plenty of reasons to trust what Google says, given that they wrote the software and certified the phone. The attestor model, because it relies on trust, is fundamentally biased towards organisations which you already are obliged to trust to some extent.

The same arguments apply to metal detectors. This isn't about detecting metal (negative filter), it's about detecting approved clothing.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#267
It turns out that when the growth stops, companies show their real face. The reason everyone in the world is praying infinite growth is this dynamic, people, companies are alike.

You want to know if someone is truly a nice person - put them into a now growth situation for a while. Before that, it’s all talk.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#268
post #17

It's time to start lobbying hard for an antitrust breakup of Google. This DRM plan, as abuse of a monopoly position, provides more political coverage for a forced breakup. It's pretty clear how to break up Alphabet, because it grew mostly by acquisition. - Google - search, ads on search pages and nothing more. - DoubleClick - third party ads on other sites. - Analytics - services to web sites. - Cloud - the money-los…

How would Chrome make money? Right now they get a blank check from Google because dominance on the web is their business model. But if they're not supposed to sell out users interests to the ad-company, how are they supposed to earn any revenue? Sell Chrome licenses?

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with a breakup but arguably other than Search, DoubleClick, and Youtube, none of the others are solvent without ad money. On thing I feel we are still missing is for FSF, Wiki, Archive.org, etc. to effectively gather enough cash to start lobbying in politics and in industry much in the same way Meta and Alphabet do. Politicians/legislators are ridiculously cheap to lobby in the grand scheme of things.

Chrome is probably the best example. I don't really know how people would expect that to be a company or even a division under Alphabet. It's rather unfortunate, because I don't think Google can be trusted to build a browser anymore. Android is also a weird case. All funding is coming from Google, but the revenue isn't coming from licensing of the OS. Separating out Android and require manufacturers to pay a license…

They forked the browser to grab data for the advertising engine.

If all they wanted was high quality browser imagine what Apple and Google could have done if google hadn't forked webkit.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#270
post #225
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also how I remember it. "getfirefox.com" is burned into memory from ages ago, the first real competitor to IE. Everyone wanted to switch to it. Then chrome came along and people reluctantly switched at first, then enthusiastically. Firefox had the reputation of eating RAM like candy.

>Firefox had the reputation of eating RAM like candy. It wasn't unwarranted. They were dealing with a great deal of memory leak issues in the early Chrome vs FF era. The most important thing is that even when Chrome ended up taking more ram than FF for an equal amount of tab and equal websites loaded, closing tabs on Chrome was far more likely to let you free ram usage than on Firefox, and nobody likes to have to clo…

Yes true, it was very much a warranted reputation, no doubt about that. I still use Firefox and am put off about its UX much in the same way as when chrome was released.
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