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Don't be clever

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Re: Don't be clever

#31

Post by jader201 »

jbandela1 wrote: post #15

> Yes, I had failed to see the proper solution: a class generator — so that I didn't have to manually copy code again No, please don't. This is jumping from the frying pan into the fire. If you think abstract base classes can be clever and hard to understand, code generators can be even more so. In addition, because code generators are a one way conversion, and the generated code evolves independently and the code ge…

My understanding is that in this case, the code generator is merely a boilerplate generator that isn’t meant to keep the code in sync, but just do the initial copy/paste work.

I think code generators are a perfectly acceptable solution in cases like this, when the starting point all looks the same, and it needs to diverge from there. Especially if the generation logic is fairly straightforward.

There are a lot of IDEs that have boilerplate generators out of the box.

Re: Don't be clever

#32

Post by layer8 »

The problem isn’t copying code, the problem is if the code has to evolve and then has to be changed in a dozen places consistently. Each place by now having its own particular knobs and special cases doesn’t make it easier.

In the context of code maintenance and evolution, there is a tension between duplication and abstraction. Both have their drawbacks. There is no silver bullet. One can overdo both.

Re: Don't be clever

#33

Post by spion »

I have a softer rule for myself, which is "If you are going to be clever, make a (depends on the size of the abstraction): README, detailed API docs, possibly even a landing page. Specify behavior, write diagrams, explain what and why, document edge cases. Also, periodically have someone who's never seen it give honest feedback based on the docs only."

If that sounds like too much work, then its not worth it.

Re: Don't be clever

#34

Post by wallmountedtv »

jbandela1 wrote: post #15

> Yes, I had failed to see the proper solution: a class generator — so that I didn't have to manually copy code again No, please don't. This is jumping from the frying pan into the fire. If you think abstract base classes can be clever and hard to understand, code generators can be even more so. In addition, because code generators are a one way conversion, and the generated code evolves independently and the code ge…

As a blog post with the title "Don't be clever" ending up with the author's answer being an even clever-er solution, than talking about the hidden fight against complexity in software, was an odd ending note.

Re: Don't be clever

#35

Post by PartiallyTyped »

report-to-trees wrote: post #5

I think these stories and aversion to "clever" code end up hurting programmers overall. I wish we spent more time teaching how to choose the correct time and place to be clever instead. Searching for ways to make things better instead of mindlessly copy pasting how it was done by the person before me is how I learned my most valuable skills.

I agree.

A new pattern may seem "clever" or "difficult" if you haven't encountered it before; but if you spend time with it and work with it, it can look like the most natural thing in the world.

Re: Don't be clever

#36

Post by rbreaves »

bloopernova wrote: post #9

Yeah, like me (DevOps) writing our dev environment manager tool in Python when all the devs write nodejs. Then not being able to just ask them how to solve a problem in node, instead having to spend far longer figuring stuff out myself. Good for learning, bad for velocity. Although I do know a buttload more Python now. Yeah, clever! As my old man said, so sharp you cut yourself.

Tbh if your nodejs devs can’t handle some Python then you need better devs. I’d been happy to help!

Re: Don't be clever

#37

Post by plagiarist »

jstimpfle wrote: post #23
SanderNL wrote: post #13

I have swung both ways and I think I now settle somewhere near "boring is good" and "repetition is harmless (compared to the astronomic costs of wrong abstraction)". Especially repetition seems to be hated with the might of a thousand suns and while I get it, because I myself hated it, I now can see the beauty of it. What is currently a superficial repetition - a bunch of endpoint handlers, some forms - will often tu…

I've seen my share of cases where the repetition was only because the original author didn't know how to abstract the problem say, using a simple struct. Or even easier, a simple function. I've sometimes taken on factoring the repeated code using common abstractions, and when that was done it often turned out that there was much more to factor out. And that the code quality could massively be improved because there a…

If it can be abstracted, often the abstraction can have unit tests. That's my goal, it is not just about avoiding boilerplate and repetition, it is that boilerplate and repetition are more surface area for errors.

Re: Don't be clever

#38

Post by ravenstine »

assbuttbuttass wrote: post #28
ravenstine wrote: post #26

I really dislike when someone considers my code "clever" because it always means they don't approve of it or think it's too confusing. No, I wasn't trying to be clever, but to create the most appropriate solution I could imagine. The author's problem isn't being overly clever, but that they had applied an inappropriate yet imtellectually-satisfying programming pattern that is notorious for being difficult to make exc…

Agreed, when someone calls my code "complex" or "clever," it comes across as an insult

I wouldn't object so much to "complex" because there may be a much simpler way to writing my code. What I don't like about "clever" is that it's always a shit-sandwich that comes off as misrepresenting my intentions. I never write code with the intent of impressing myself or anyone else; my only interest is in writing minimal code that is maintainable and as easy to understand as possible. If my code doesn't achieve that, just tell me without patting me on the head by telling me I was trying to be clever.
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