The cloud is a prison. can the local-first software movement set us free?
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Re: The cloud is a prison. can the local-first software movement set us free?
#2I'm going all in on Local First, it addresses so many issues with the current "app" web. Better responsiveness from UI, working offline, privet data, lower server costs, just as a start.
Somewhat counter to the article, I would argue that local first isn't about having "no cloud", it's "low cloud". So you could go P2P for sync, but you can also have a much more lightweight sync service on a central server. Both are valid "local first", it comes down to use case.
The way to think of the term is like when we all moved to designing web UI "mobile first". It's a kind of shift from operating one way and adding on support for the other, to the other way around. Start local and layer on server and cloud support.
One of the most exciting things about local first though is that once you have solved all the sync, and conflicting edit resolution problems (CRDTs are key here) you are 90% of the way to solving "multiplayer real-time". The only missing bit presence.
The community around local first is also really buzzy, it's got that great feeling of being part of something new, something that's going to be bigger than the sum of its parts.
To learn more about local first this is a great starting point https://localfirstweb.dev/
Re: The cloud is a prison. can the local-first software movement set us free?
#3the cloud is a failure of the internet
originally we were all going to be able to host our own stuff in our closets, the 'intelligence' goes in the edges.
then the industrialists went full-cloud on this idea. and the 'intelligence' got concentrated in a few gigantic industrial warehouses.
but it sure feels more orderly this way. why spread the load when you can focus it and centralize it?
Re: The cloud is a prison. can the local-first software movement set us free?
#4I'm going all in on Local First, it addresses so many issues with the current "app" web. Better responsiveness from UI, working offline, privet data, lower server costs, just as a start. Somewhat counter to the article, I would argue that local first isn't about having "no cloud", it's "low cloud". So you could go P2P for sync, but you can also have a much more lightweight sync service on a central server. Both are v…
Is this a webdev only community? I see this being an issue in other development environments..
Re: The cloud is a prison. can the local-first software movement set us free?
#5I'm going all in on Local First, it addresses so many issues with the current "app" web. Better responsiveness from UI, working offline, privet data, lower server costs, just as a start. Somewhat counter to the article, I would argue that local first isn't about having "no cloud", it's "low cloud". So you could go P2P for sync, but you can also have a much more lightweight sync service on a central server. Both are v…
Is this a webdev only community? I see this being an issue in other development environments..
Not at all, it's open to all.
There are many ways to build local first, both with web technologies and with "native" app toolkits.
Many of the CRDT tools have started as JS/TS libs but have been rebuilt in Rust to be cross platform, WASM or native.
The appeal of using web tech is its accessibility and ease of distribution. Local first and PWAs with the new origin privet file system api kind of go hand in hand, but it's not an exclusive relationship.
Re: The cloud is a prison. can the local-first software movement set us free?
#6I'm going all in on Local First, it addresses so many issues with the current "app" web. Better responsiveness from UI, working offline, privet data, lower server costs, just as a start. Somewhat counter to the article, I would argue that local first isn't about having "no cloud", it's "low cloud". So you could go P2P for sync, but you can also have a much more lightweight sync service on a central server. Both are v…
I 100% agree.
At least in the Elixir space, Phoenix has some excellent lightweight methods to solve the presence piece! https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix/Phoenix.Presence.html
Re: The cloud is a prison. can the local-first software movement set us free?
#7I don't know what this fluff is doing on HN. They make it sound like the Cloud Mafia forces everyone to use their server farms, instead of offering a product that people willingly choose to use. The rest is some hazy hype of CRDTs, as if their usage magically eliminated editing conflicts. Kleppmann is legit and his book is great, he deserves better than this.
Re: The cloud is a prison. can the local-first software movement set us free?
#8I don't know what this fluff is doing on HN. They make it sound like the Cloud Mafia forces everyone to use their server farms, instead of offering a product that people willingly choose to use. The rest is some hazy hype of CRDTs, as if their usage magically eliminated editing conflicts. Kleppmann is legit and his book is great, he deserves better than this.
While the article is certinaly and little "fluffy" - more infotainment and information - the concepts behind local first are sound, they are a strong and compelling way to build apps.
Quite right CRDTs are not magic, but they do get you something like 80-90% of the way there for most CRUD style apps. There is also a bunch of work going on into developing new CRDTs for different use cases.
What's important is articles like this help us to explain to less technical people what local first is, the advantages it has. They help to sell the concept.
But ultimately Wired is entertainment isn't it.
Re: The cloud is a prison. can the local-first software movement set us free?
#9This is how things worked 15 years ago, before the “cloud” hype took off. In my opinion, things worked great. You could get stuff done.
I’m intrigued that there’s a “movement”. I suppose that’s what you need to get news articles and promote change. What’s old is new.
Re: The cloud is a prison. can the local-first software movement set us free?
#10the cloud is a failure of the internet originally we were all going to be able to host our own stuff in our closets, the 'intelligence' goes in the edges. then the industrialists went full-cloud on this idea. and the 'intelligence' got concentrated in a few gigantic industrial warehouses. but it sure feels more orderly this way. why spread the load when you can focus it and centralize it?
I'm terrified. I'm someone who used to learn skills but now I learn products.
I am not sure I can get to the end safely if everything in my professional toolbox is something I rent.