Earlier quoted context omitted.
This may seem like a good idea but so much of Google's power comes from the Search + Search Ads monopoly. That is where they are anticompetitive to the max, that is where a change needs to happen. Splitting everything else off doesn't solve the core problem. Within Search + Search Ads you have a platform where Google are/have: - the sole vendor of a digital asset - ads - the sole marketplace for that asset - a closed…
Even if you split the search and ads divisions into two companies, what prevents them from entering into a partnership and keep doing whatever they do now?
Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For
211–220 of 427 posts
Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So make lots of noise politically about that. How? I've seen similar ideas but the best they do is resonate really nicely in this echo chamber.
Send letters and call your Senators and House representatives. Donate to them the maximum you’re legally allowed to and when you get the staffer call asking for more money, give them an (respectful) earful. All it takes most of the time is a dozen people pushing the issue for a rep to make up their mind on a bill. On contentious issues, a few hundred persistent constituents will convince even Senators in large states…
Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For
#213Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For
#214It's time to start lobbying hard for an antitrust breakup of Google. This DRM plan, as abuse of a monopoly position, provides more political coverage for a forced breakup. It's pretty clear how to break up Alphabet, because it grew mostly by acquisition. - Google - search, ads on search pages and nothing more. - DoubleClick - third party ads on other sites. - Analytics - services to web sites. - Cloud - the money-los…
"Chrome - browsers" And the money is coming from where? Chrome exists mostly, so the ad buisness gets more data and they can influence the direction of the web. Seperate that and there will be no more chrome as there is no other source of income. (Except maybe a little bit from ChromeOS). Otherwise I get it, it is mostly politics to threaten google to reach this.: "It's quite likely to make Google dump this proposal,…
This is their business problem, not ours.
Since Chrome, the browser, is in some way a new OS paradigm we can think that the open source community would take it seriously to build a new one and/or improve/fork Firefox in the same way we have Linux, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc, etc. I think the main issue is UX/UI where the open source community doesn't excel, yet.
Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For
#215It's this about eliminating those annoying, and at times confusing, CAPTCHAs?
29% of all internet traffic is malicious bots [1].
Why is it a bad thing for browser makers to signal to websites that the party interacting with their website is a real human being or not?
Why is there so much hate for what Google is doing with WEI, but I don't sense the same hate for Apple Private Access Tokens (PAT)?
Isn't WEI just a response to Apple PAT?
Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could actually package this up in a way that people would find palatable. What if maps only took you to places where you have a loyalty card - or the places that currently have discounts on things in your shopping list. Give it the right marketing spin and people would love it.
I can imagine Margrethe Vestager will start flexing her regulation muscles the minute Google even thinks about it.
Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s not how I remembered it. Chrome really was a good browser and I would argue is still a good browser (for now). IE got displaced by Firefox’s predecessors because MS got caught napping - they disbanded the IE team thinking they have won. Firefox simply got outcompeted by Chrome as Google went crazy making it faster and faster. Firefox fell behind often enough that Chrome managed to take almost all of its market…
That’s the “nerd history”, which I mostly agree with. Normal users however don’t care much about performance and whatnot. Their PC came with Chrome, so they use it. If you give them some other browser, they probably won’t be able to tell the difference. Chrome didn’t “win” because it was good. It won because of Google’s hyper-aggressive marketing on all channels. They basically did was Microsoft was fined for by the…
You talk like it's impossible for nerds to have influence on their surroundings. Way before Chrome got preinstalled on a computer or went on a dark pattern campaign, I heavily recommended it to my acquaintances, friends, family. I even remember a perfectly "normal user" type uncle using Chrome before I recommended it to him because he had learned of its existence from another person's word of mouth. I constantly see people try to diminish the power of word of mouth spreading good products here on HN, which is complete nonsense. Contrary to the popular belief on HN that "normies" are idiots who only ever settle for "defaults", they routinely try new things if their peers recommend it, it's how non-preinstalled apps like Whatsapp grow. It's not just the networking effect, you need to be better than the default. Sending things like pictures through texting apps sucked, group messaging sucked, Whatsapp provided something /much better/ so people used it. By the way, it's out of topic, but mentioning messaging apps reminds me of how Google in fact could not, despite its monopoly and advertisement power, get anyone to use theirs. If you think dark patterns and preinstalling apps is enough to gain success, then why has google failed, time and time again? Apps like Google Duo were preinstalled on all android phones I've seen and literally no one I know in real life ever made use of them. Maybe google's apps weren't bad, but they were not /better/ enough to encourage people to give a shit. To convert people, you can't just be "as good" as the competition, you need some serious oomph.
When Chrome came out, it was a landslide. IE was dead, and Firefox was dramatically inferior in both performance and security. The multiprocess architecture of Chrome combined with other security related decisions, and the V8 JIT for javascript made it a vastly superior browser and people knew about it. Firefox took a VERY long time to get to a place where it didn't feel bad to use once websites started taking advantage of Chrome's superior performance and got more bloated in the process. Some of the changes it made to get there were heavily contentious with the nerds who ended up being the main population of users for FF, like removing XUL, further pushing FF into a very specific niche : the privacy conscious and people who use it solely to reject google's monopoly. The "normal people" who would have used Firefox instead of IE back in the day because of peer recommendations would not use Firefox instead of Chrome today unless they're very obsessed with those things, because FF is no longer clearly better than the alternative, to the contrary, it's still weaker, though not as much as it used to be.
And while the crowd on HN tends to focus heavily on things like privacy, if there's anything the average person doesn't care about in my experience, it's that. They will never trade convenience for more privacy.
Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remember when they use to say “Don’t be evil”?
crazy that they just unashamedly removed it.
Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For
#219It's time to start lobbying hard for an antitrust breakup of Google. This DRM plan, as abuse of a monopoly position, provides more political coverage for a forced breakup. It's pretty clear how to break up Alphabet, because it grew mostly by acquisition. - Google - search, ads on search pages and nothing more. - DoubleClick - third party ads on other sites. - Analytics - services to web sites. - Cloud - the money-los…
But it would still be in their interest in preventing ad fraud on the web.
Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For
#220It's time to start lobbying hard for an antitrust breakup of Google. This DRM plan, as abuse of a monopoly position, provides more political coverage for a forced breakup. It's pretty clear how to break up Alphabet, because it grew mostly by acquisition. - Google - search, ads on search pages and nothing more. - DoubleClick - third party ads on other sites. - Analytics - services to web sites. - Cloud - the money-los…
I totally agree. IMHO regulators should have been looking at safety net attestation already because it effectively destroys the claim of Google that OEM have a choice and it is not Google's monopoly. The problem is that Google is really good at just keeping below the radar (only the few people will notice that are not using Apple, Google or Microsoft products, which probably does not include any politicians, the broa…
Apps that require play services are just as much exclusive as apps that require attestation. Phones that don't use play services can create their own attestation API and partener with apps to support it.