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Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

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Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#71

Post by piyushranjan »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16
jensnockert wrote: post #2

It would be interesting to see how much money was lost or gained by Bayer based on this. I assume that usage might go up by at least a factor 20 in India (and their production costs go down) so those 6% might actually be a fair deal in the long run.

Fewer than 200 Indians used the drug in 2011; impact on sales should be minimal [1]. Bayer's concern is probably the export of these generics (illegally) to other places where it sources more sales from. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/business/global/india-over...

Only 200 people bought it because the price of the drugs is ridiculously high. Even people who are dying would not have been able to afford it.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#72

Post by leonth »

tripzilch wrote: post #65
JunkDNA wrote: post #36

I worked in the drug R&D business for over 8 years. I still follow the industry closely. Some things always get lost in these discussions. First, manufacturing an existing drug is absurdly cheap. Modern industrial chemistry ensures this for all small molecule drugs (note that this is not the same case for the "biologics" which are often fiendishly difficult to make). Almost all the cost in a drug is the manufacturer…

But most of those R&D costs are for getting "FDA" approval. I don't see why India (or anyone, really) should pay for lining the pockets of the USA's inefficient and corrupt bureaucratic machinery. Or I could be wrong and those $12B really goes into equipment and lab workers wages, but you won't blame me for finding it real hard to believe until I see at least a rough breakdown of how those costs are summed up. From t…

I am not terribly familiar with the process, but I assure you it includes: early computational simulations of the prospective molecules; testing on lab animals; testing on healthy people; testing on small (a few hundred) number of patients; large scale (a few thousand) multi-centre trials across the whole world (if you want to sell it to the whole world, that is). This process takes quite a number of years.

Now imagine how many labs, hospitals, scientists, doctors, statisticians, patients (oh they do get compensation), and auxiliary clerical workers need to be paid for the whole process.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#73

Post by w1ntermute »

nknight wrote: post #56
JunkDNA wrote: post #36

I worked in the drug R&D business for over 8 years. I still follow the industry closely. Some things always get lost in these discussions. First, manufacturing an existing drug is absurdly cheap. Modern industrial chemistry ensures this for all small molecule drugs (note that this is not the same case for the "biologics" which are often fiendishly difficult to make). Almost all the cost in a drug is the manufacturer…

> You don't need to be an industry expert to grok that those numbers are wildly unsustainable. Tell you what. When these companies stop being the most profitable in America, or even just when their EPS starts declining, I'll believe you.

I don't think there's an unbreakable bond between profitability and sustainability. To use a tech industry analogy, despite making insane profits off of Windows as it is (and has been for 20 years), Microsoft has realized that we've entered a post-PC world, and modified Windows to run on new form factors, such as the tablet.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#75

Post by crusso »

ThomPete wrote: post #33
nickik wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You risk everybody threwing some shit into the pipeline. Now they have to think about if the really want to trie to get it threw.

I am not sure I follow? It would force the governments to develop better and cheaper systems themselves to make sure that they can test for cheap. Surely the current scenario isn't working is it?

> Surely the current scenario isn't working is it?

How so?

Are not drug companies finding drugs that people desire a great deal for their life saving and other efficacious properties?

I'm guessing that you don't like that newer drugs are too expensive. What would be your definition of "too expensive" and what would be your proof that such a situation exists?

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#76

Post by Duff »

JunkDNA wrote: post #36

I worked in the drug R&D business for over 8 years. I still follow the industry closely. Some things always get lost in these discussions. First, manufacturing an existing drug is absurdly cheap. Modern industrial chemistry ensures this for all small molecule drugs (note that this is not the same case for the "biologics" which are often fiendishly difficult to make). Almost all the cost in a drug is the manufacturer…

At this point, isn't the pharmaceutical industry playing games with supply by limiting the production of many medicines?

Even a common OTC drug like guaifenesin that has been around since the 50's is difficult to find by itself, except in the newly patented time-release formulation (ie. Mucinex). (Although it is an ingredient in many cold medicines.)

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#77

Post by leonth »

antihero wrote: post #62
JunkDNA wrote: post #36

I worked in the drug R&D business for over 8 years. I still follow the industry closely. Some things always get lost in these discussions. First, manufacturing an existing drug is absurdly cheap. Modern industrial chemistry ensures this for all small molecule drugs (note that this is not the same case for the "biologics" which are often fiendishly difficult to make). Almost all the cost in a drug is the manufacturer…

Why has the cost gone up so much, and what can be done to reduce it?

It does not go down. The more drugs we know, the harder it is to prove that the new drug you propose is better than current therapy. A proposed molecule that does not have significant advantage compared to the current gold standard will never sell. To put it in another way: all the low-hanging fruits are already taken.

Add to the fact that science progresses; we now know more about the human body and generally everything compared to 20 years ago, so more stringent rules and testing are required.

Classic example: before thalidomide, nobody cares about how drugs work in pregnant women. Now all drugs have pregnancy category (how safe it is to be used by pregnant women) approved by FDA, and figuring out this pregnancy category comes with a cost.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#78

Post by nknight »

w1ntermute wrote: post #73
nknight wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't need to be an industry expert to grok that those numbers are wildly unsustainable. Tell you what. When these companies stop being the most profitable in America, or even just when their EPS starts declining, I'll believe you.

I don't think there's an unbreakable bond between profitability and sustainability. To use a tech industry analogy, despite making insane profits off of Windows as it is (and has been for 20 years), Microsoft has realized that we've entered a post-PC world, and modified Windows to run on new form factors, such as the tablet.

I really don't see your point. Microsoft's basic business model hasn't changed, their products are just evolving. Drug companies make new drugs and refine old ones all the time. Other than whining by obviously-biased spokespeople for the drug industry, I have no reason to believe their business model can't be sustained indefinitely under the current regulatory regimes.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#79

Post by crusso »

arkitaip wrote: post #3

Bayer shareholders should hold the senior management accountable for not caring enough to bring the drug to more than 2% of the Indian market.

And if they lower the price drastically in India and then are accused of gouging their customers in other countries?

When they lower the price of the drug in India, a gray market arises that resells the drugs to other countries. The presence of the gray market creates yet more opportunities for scam artists to sell fake versions of the drug, creating yet more victims.

My point is that this isn't as cut and dry of an issue as you imply.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#80

Post by lysol »

ekianjo wrote: post #57
JunkDNA wrote: post #36

I worked in the drug R&D business for over 8 years. I still follow the industry closely. Some things always get lost in these discussions. First, manufacturing an existing drug is absurdly cheap. Modern industrial chemistry ensures this for all small molecule drugs (note that this is not the same case for the "biologics" which are often fiendishly difficult to make). Almost all the cost in a drug is the manufacturer…

The reason why the cost of R&D is inflating so much is due to relentless addition of new regulations, new requirements, new safety-related trials demanded by the authorities. Add to that that almost every other country has specific requirements that do not fit with what was developed and proven before, and that's just another 2-3 years clinical trial you need to put up with. This is really getting insane and there is…

Got any examples? The trial process for new medications isn't perfect, but without citing specific failures in the process it becomes to easy to discount the parts of the process that do work.
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