Live data from Hacker News

Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

ft.com

131–140 of 187 posts

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#131
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first read about it I thought someone was playing an elaborate joke. It makes no sense why such ephemeral concepts should somehow lead to better investments. If anything, the entire ESG score thing seems like a scam to get people to make bad investments and to then bet against those investments.

> It makes no sense why such ephemeral concepts should somehow lead to better investments. What specifically do you find ephemeral about ESG?

Social and governance are both factors that are going to be more political than results based. Getting a biased third party to evaluate companies on those two factors might as well be a game of darts, because what's considered actually important is going to vary based on the person's politics that's doing the evaluation (or writing the specific evaluation criteria).

Social responsibility is a nice phrase to use when you want to justify anything you want politically, but the only meaning it carries is "you should do what my politics thinks is best".

It's ephemeral because if you give those criteria to a country whose politics you don't like, then you're going to get results that you don't agree with.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#132
ESG is a deeply problematic concept but a world without any "esg" concerns at all is a terminal world with an expiry date fairly close. So the positive attitude is to see the glass as 5% full rather than 95% empty and see what could be the next step.

Unbundling the acronyms is the obvious first concern. They smack of a kitchen sink approach to everything the corporate thinks is a reputation risk. As factors they have no internal coherence.

Then, for each of the underlying issues one must clarify and distinguish whether it is an assessment of current state of the world or future risks (and to whom, what? earnings, value, reputation, clients, mother earth etc).

Finally, even in the most tractable case (accounting for current co2 emissions, which is a tiny fraction of environmental footprint and says nothing about the future) there is a mountain of methodological challenges to climb: Who is emitting, who is enabling it, who is demanding it, who benefits most etc. The modern economy is a giant hairball of dependencies yet we like to ignore all that.

The "ESG period" of the sustainability transition is the financial system taking a first peek at the actual state of the world as opposed to "the number goes up". Its no surprise that many just want to close the lid and pretend they never saw anything. But its not possible unless we accept we are an amoral last generation that devolves into a madhouse.

It took credit ratings a century to mature and they are still heavily gamed / leading to systemic crises. What makes you think this existential question for the unhinged corporate profit-focused entities that dominate modern economic life will get resolved any sooner?

There is a long, long road ahead. But if you look for purpose look no further.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#133
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just offset CO2 emissions by hiring more diverse staff from New York. Brilliant! How come Fossil fuel industry never thought of that?

Actually, they did https://www.investors.com/news/esg-companies-list-top-100-es... ConocoPhillips and Exxon Mobil are one the list along with a trucking company at number 2 and various other oil companies.

In the same vein, a major bottled water (plastic bottles) company (Volvic) draining local water sources is a B-Corp where I live… So is Nespresso.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#134
post #126
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

offset your cheating (emmissions) by buying adultery (carbon) credits

I think that those credits are called "flowers". I'm only halfway joking. A lot of people do try to address their guilt over bad behavior by doing nice things. And a lot of people who receive those nice things don't want to think about why they are being treated well. The easiest person to scam is the one who wants to believe the scam. And any kind of credit program will attract people who want to believe.

Yikes, I sure hope my wife doesn't suspect foul play every time I do something nice for her.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#136
post #126
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

offset your cheating (emmissions) by buying adultery (carbon) credits

I think that those credits are called "flowers". I'm only halfway joking. A lot of people do try to address their guilt over bad behavior by doing nice things. And a lot of people who receive those nice things don't want to think about why they are being treated well. The easiest person to scam is the one who wants to believe the scam. And any kind of credit program will attract people who want to believe.

Some times they are called "cricket tournaments". Its not about addressing guilt, its about manufacturing social license to operate and the the bad things.

https://oilnow.gy/featured/exxonmobil-guyana-has-invested-ne...

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#137
ESG is about how sustainable the COMPANY (stock price) is when looking from those three aspects i.e is it a safe investment to not lose your pension in it.

The survivability of everything around it is not to say irrelevant but at least a few steps removed.

So it tries to assess whether your money is still there, not the planet.

Obviously the marketing tries to make you believe that it’s about the planet.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#138
post #87
post #3

A component of ESG scores is how much you discriminate against white people. So of course you can have a good ESG score yet be a polluter.

" Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. " - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing the site guidelines and taking their intended spirit more to heart, we'd be grateful.

[deleted]

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#139

ESG is about how sustainable the COMPANY (stock price) is when looking from those three aspects i.e is it a safe investment to not lose your pension in it. The survivability of everything around it is not to say irrelevant but at least a few steps removed. So it tries to assess whether your money is still there, not the planet. Obviously the marketing tries to make you believe that it’s about the planet.

So it looks at how well the company is prepared to do when the climate changes (mostly by having written some plans).

It does not care much about what the company actions do to the world.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#140

ESG is about how sustainable the COMPANY (stock price) is when looking from those three aspects i.e is it a safe investment to not lose your pension in it. The survivability of everything around it is not to say irrelevant but at least a few steps removed. So it tries to assess whether your money is still there, not the planet. Obviously the marketing tries to make you believe that it’s about the planet.

So it looks at how well the company is prepared to do when the climate changes (mostly by having written some plans). It does not care much about what the company actions do to the world.

In short: ESG measures the worlds impact on the company NOT the company's impact on the world.

Better ESG score means company is more resilient to change in those factors.

Post reply on HN