Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

pluralistic.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 182 posts

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#91

Post by firebirdn99 »

These DRM rules are similar to ones on movies, TV shows bought in previously iTunes store, now "TV" app. Once you buy it, you can only view it on their devices/software.

It's not similar to buying a physical version of your movie on a DVD, and owning it. This has huge ramifications. People spending 1000's of $ on sites cannot own them, nor even transfer them (sell) to another account. Which is why physical copies are still attractive to own.

There's also issues of buying something that entirely disappears. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/09/17/apple-res...

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#92

Post by eslaught »

taeric wrote: post #83
slowmovintarget wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Brandon Sanderson's criticism of Audible? [1] > If you want details, the current industry standard for a digital product is to pay the creator 70% on a sale. It’s what Steam pays your average creator for a game sale, it’s what Amazon pays on ebooks, it’s what Apple pays for apps downloaded. (And they’re getting heat for taking as much as they are. Rightly so.) > Audible pays 40%. Almost half. For a frame of…

I covered this in other threads, basically. In truth, I was largely responding to this angle at the outset. DRM feels like a red herring that almost certainly exists due to demands from publishing houses. (I'll have to check to see if you can get any non-DRM files from libraries. My expectation is going to be a big no on that from any library that lends out audio books.) The odd complaint here is that the authors are…

A 40% cut makes sense in a world where Amazon pays the voice actor.

My understanding is that is not how this works. The author pays the voice actor, or the publisher does. Amazon is paying for hosting an audio file, basically, and the development of the player app, and that's it.

I think in the very early days, Amazon may have paid all the voice actors itself (because no one was on board with audio yet at that point), and the 40% royalty model may have made sense. But I believe that is not how it works now, and 40% royalties make a lot less sense in the world we now live in; it seems to be just purely predatory.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#93

Post by firebirdn99 »

jt2190 wrote: post #77

> [I]t's a Big Tech disassembly manual that explains how to disenshittify the web and bring back the old good internet. As someone who also loves to "surf" the web and who misses the good old days, I do wonder if it's really in humanity's best interests to have everyone starting at screens all day. There was a time before the web when we thought computers would do all the grunt work, but the last few decades seem lik…

well we're getting chatgpt to do majority of rote / grunt work soon so...

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#94

Post by taeric »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #87
taeric wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I covered this in other threads, basically. In truth, I was largely responding to this angle at the outset. DRM feels like a red herring that almost certainly exists due to demands from publishing houses. (I'll have to check to see if you can get any non-DRM files from libraries. My expectation is going to be a big no on that from any library that lends out audio books.) The odd complaint here is that the authors are…

The performers get paid up-front for the performance. This typically costs the author somewhere in the neighborhood of $10K to $40K including production costs. Amazon originally paid out 70% like most other digital goods purveyors. Once they cornered the market they arbitrarily pushed it down to 25% (you only get 40% if you agree not to sell anywhere else). This means that for many authors, especially indie authors,…

Reading online, it is looking more like there are royalty shares. And I'm not clear on how "produced by Audible" works factor in there. Seems silly that the narrator wouldn't also be entitled to a per sale value.

I will also ack that I'm all for better legislation to help creators in a lot of this. I just don't know that this all is as clean a picture as you are making it. For an easy example, did audible drop their payout from 70 down to 20ish at the same time they dropped the average price that they sold at? That would change the story more than a little bit, if so. Do they also cover some of the upfront costs of production for some audio books?

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#95

Post by taeric »

belorn wrote: post #89
taeric wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen complaints on Audible for a few years, at this point? Surprised if this is news to you. Though, I also wouldn't be too shocked if folks skip past audio book news that don't listen to audio books. What do you mean the point wasn't on Audible, btw? The article is literally about how he is proud he isn't putting his book with Audible because of DRM? This is painted as if it is a choice of Amazon's, but it is h…

When you mean other articles, are you talking about this author?

Well, the root article was changed on us. But, yeah, Doctorow and Sanderson both have had pretty high profile critiques of Audible? I don't keep a full index on the official lines, but summary is largely that "DRM bad" and "they give a smaller percentage to authors."

And, at large, I don't care for either of those things. I agree that DRM blows. I also would love it if writers and narrators and SFX crews and everyone got more money. I have grown to not trust a lot of the "big tech company is root of all problems in this old rotting industry" story.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#96

Post by causality0 »

because Amazon will not carry it

This is a lie. Further, it is a lie designed to outrage the reader and drive engagement. It is enshittification. "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster." Saying Amazon won't carry your book is like saying the App Store won't carry your app...because you refuse to participate in a walled-garden software ecosystem.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#98

Post by taeric »

eslaught wrote: post #92
taeric wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I covered this in other threads, basically. In truth, I was largely responding to this angle at the outset. DRM feels like a red herring that almost certainly exists due to demands from publishing houses. (I'll have to check to see if you can get any non-DRM files from libraries. My expectation is going to be a big no on that from any library that lends out audio books.) The odd complaint here is that the authors are…

A 40% cut makes sense in a world where Amazon pays the voice actor. My understanding is that is not how this works. The author pays the voice actor, or the publisher does. Amazon is paying for hosting an audio file, basically, and the development of the player app, and that's it. I think in the very early days, Amazon may have paid all the voice actors itself (because no one was on board with audio yet at that point)…

My understanding is that it will depend on the book? I'd love to see more discussion on that whole ecosystem, honestly. Some of the first searches seem decent to read on.

I just know that, even today, the audio books I purchase are far cheaper if I get them from Audible than basically anywhere else. Unless it is a book on CD I get from the library, for obviously different reasons.

I also know that things are byzantine to get an audio book from a library. Largely due to the influence of publishers, not tech companies.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#99

Post by dendriti »

taeric wrote: post #94
slowmovintarget wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The performers get paid up-front for the performance. This typically costs the author somewhere in the neighborhood of $10K to $40K including production costs. Amazon originally paid out 70% like most other digital goods purveyors. Once they cornered the market they arbitrarily pushed it down to 25% (you only get 40% if you agree not to sell anywhere else). This means that for many authors, especially indie authors,…

Reading online, it is looking more like there are royalty shares. And I'm not clear on how "produced by Audible" works factor in there. Seems silly that the narrator wouldn't also be entitled to a per sale value. I will also ack that I'm all for better legislation to help creators in a lot of this. I just don't know that this all is as clean a picture as you are making it. For an easy example, did audible drop their…

You sure do have a LOT to say about Audible, despite demonstrating here a clear lack of understanding of how the service works, its market position, how much it charges, and so on.

JAQing off in defense of a monopolist is a bad look.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#100

Post by TylerE »

taeric wrote: post #83
slowmovintarget wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Brandon Sanderson's criticism of Audible? [1] > If you want details, the current industry standard for a digital product is to pay the creator 70% on a sale. It’s what Steam pays your average creator for a game sale, it’s what Amazon pays on ebooks, it’s what Apple pays for apps downloaded. (And they’re getting heat for taking as much as they are. Rightly so.) > Audible pays 40%. Almost half. For a frame of…

I covered this in other threads, basically. In truth, I was largely responding to this angle at the outset. DRM feels like a red herring that almost certainly exists due to demands from publishing houses. (I'll have to check to see if you can get any non-DRM files from libraries. My expectation is going to be a big no on that from any library that lends out audio books.) The odd complaint here is that the authors are…

The audible drm is also pretty trivially stripped if you actually care about such things. It aint exactly AACS.
Post reply on HN