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Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

31–40 of 227 posts

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#31

The reason why it's expensive to develop drugs is in large parts because of the process involved to get the approval. Couldn't you turn this on it's head? What if the companies could expense the cost of getting the approval. I.e. the tax payers pay for drugtesting and approval process. Wouldn't this make sense? Since it's in the publics interest to get safe medicin, shouldn't they/we pay for that part.

You risk everybody threwing some shit into the pipeline. Now they have to think about if the really want to trie to get it threw.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#33
post #31

The reason why it's expensive to develop drugs is in large parts because of the process involved to get the approval. Couldn't you turn this on it's head? What if the companies could expense the cost of getting the approval. I.e. the tax payers pay for drugtesting and approval process. Wouldn't this make sense? Since it's in the publics interest to get safe medicin, shouldn't they/we pay for that part.

You risk everybody threwing some shit into the pipeline. Now they have to think about if the really want to trie to get it threw.

I am not sure I follow?

It would force the governments to develop better and cheaper systems themselves to make sure that they can test for cheap.

Surely the current scenario isn't working is it?

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#34

Government was forced to make such decision because Bayer sold these drugs at a price unaffordable to most Indians. This to me seems like a very stupid decision from Bayer's management. The shareholders must act against the board now. however because of such decisions companies will find it risky to invest in life saving drug research. I think government should also take some steps to win their confidence.

>> however because of such decisions companies will find it risky to invest in life saving drug research.

I disagree. That mentality is precisely the reason that they are overpricing now (and always have done so) as much as they can. People will always need life saving drugs, and ordinary drugs as well. Terminal and cronical patients will always try both traditional and new drugs (or the state will provide it to them in case there is health care). There is absolutely no need to overprice because any price will eventually give a fair ROI for them.

What they do instead is maximize profit at the cost of human life.

On a different light, a lot of research is funded by government entities worldwide, and even if pharmaceutical companies do their own research, they certainly reference other research that is also publicly funded. Thankfully some states do care a lot about their people and will challenge them. India is doing so now, Brazil has also broken HIV drug patents (they cover the full cost of treatment through Health Care) and I hope to hear more of it from different places.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#35
post #8
post #5

I think few people would argue that drug companies' prices are reasonable, and when it comes to life vs. death I no longer care much about the "they're a business, they're allowed to make a profit" line - of course it's still true, and of course they are, but there's a (subjective) line between "making a good profit" and killing people through greed. That said, what pricing would be fair? When people claim that these…

> I no longer care much about the "they're a business, they're allowed to make a profit" line - of course it's still true, and of course they are, I disagree here. Pure laissez faire capitalism works no better than pure communism or socialism. You need a mix of both to have a functioning economy and IMO it should be pretty clear at this point that health care works best (cheapest and most effective) on the socialism…

So if the businesses make no more money how will the invest in R&D for new medication? Im not advocating pure capitalism but businesses have to make some profit.

I agree that the more socialsist systems work better atm but this does not include development of new medication and equipment. Would you want that in gov hands too?

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#36
I worked in the drug R&D business for over 8 years. I still follow the industry closely. Some things always get lost in these discussions. First, manufacturing an existing drug is absurdly cheap. Modern industrial chemistry ensures this for all small molecule drugs (note that this is not the same case for the "biologics" which are often fiendishly difficult to make). Almost all the cost in a drug is the manufacturer recouping R&D costs. These costs have been spiraling out of control for 10 years. They are astronomical. A recent Forbes analysis pegs the cost of a new drug with failures of drugs in development folded in anywhere from $3 billion to $12 billion depending on the manufacturer (excellent context and discussion here: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2012/02/10/the_terrifyi...).

You don't need to be an industry expert to grok that those numbers are wildly unsustainable. It is not possible to keep spending the amount companies spend to make new drugs. In the past, companies would inflate the price in the USA to make up for reduced prices elsewhere. But with all the recent healthcare reform in the USA, that strategy is ending.

To add insult to injury, the vast majority of the most commonly used drugs will lose patent protection in the next couple of years. In the industry they call this the patent cliff. There will not be enough new drugs to offset all the ones that go generic.

This move by India is a symptom of the wider drug industry problems. There will be more of these kinds of moves in the future. The industry has been searching for ways to more effectively make drugs and have it not be so expensive. But so far they have been striking out for 10 years running. The current strategy is to lay off most of their r&d workforce and offshore and outsource this part of the business.

Somewhere out there, a business model is waiting to be found. Whoever cracks that nut and becomes the Southwest of the drug industry is going to make a fortune.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#37
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You risk everybody threwing some shit into the pipeline. Now they have to think about if the really want to trie to get it threw.

I am not sure I follow? It would force the governments to develop better and cheaper systems themselves to make sure that they can test for cheap. Surely the current scenario isn't working is it?

What I was trying to say: When the goverments pays for testing how will you stop brute force testing?

> It would force the governments to develop better and cheaper systems themselves to make sure that they can test for cheap.

I doute they cool do that.

> Surely the current scenario isn't working is it?

Well like most things it kind of works but is not very effective.

I agree its not very good right know but I don't know how to change it.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#38

The reason why it's expensive to develop drugs is in large parts because of the process involved to get the approval. Couldn't you turn this on it's head? What if the companies could expense the cost of getting the approval. I.e. the tax payers pay for drugtesting and approval process. Wouldn't this make sense? Since it's in the publics interest to get safe medicin, shouldn't they/we pay for that part.

[deleted]

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#40
post #21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also don't forget that for these companies the poor people in India are the subjects of clinial trials. The mindset of these companies of treating the poor people as Guinea pigs is also disgusting 671 reported deaths http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/human-rights-pan... There is no count of no of people who get disabilities but don't die due to trials failing. Who will pay for these? These pharma companies…

I am referring to FDA trials, in the US, which can take over a decade and cost 8- or 9-figure dollar sums. These are required before the drug even comes to market.

US clinical trials often involve a second, parallel clinical trial in India, because it's easy to find lots of poor patients in desperate need of treatment. I think that, at least in some cases, this probably works out well for everyone except the control group.

But if poor Indian patients are going to test these drugs, the GP can certainly argue that poor Indian patients should be able to afford them.

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