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Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

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Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#21

Post by gaius »

man1sh wrote: post #19
gaius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is able to deliver and sell the anti-cancer drug by 97% cheaper than you, then in my eyes you have no right to interfere ... Provided that that "someone" also bears their fair share of the cost of discovery and clinical trials. THAT is the issue here.

also don't forget that for these companies the poor people in India are the subjects of clinial trials. The mindset of these companies of treating the poor people as Guinea pigs is also disgusting 671 reported deaths http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/human-rights-pan... There is no count of no of people who get disabilities but don't die due to trials failing. Who will pay for these? These pharma companies…

I am referring to FDA trials, in the US, which can take over a decade and cost 8- or 9-figure dollar sums. These are required before the drug even comes to market.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#22

Post by mattmanser »

urza wrote: post #15

Bayer said it was "disappointed" and would "evaluate options to defend intellectual property rights" in the country. Down-vote me if you like, but I get sick to my stomach when I read sentences like this. If someone is able to deliver and sell the anti-cancer drug by 97% cheaper than you, then in my eyes you have no right to interfere. I am starting to dislike the whole concept of intellectual property and patents an…

You seem very poorly informed about the subject. While I don't agree with the vast amount of lobbying a lot of pharma companies do, which in itself increases costs, the costs of R&D and the process of approval are huge.

Get rid of drug patents, bye bye new drugs without direct g'vmt funding. Drugs are trivial to reverse engineer, incredibly expensive to invent.

There is also a massive amount of drugs that go nowhere, often even failing at major trail stage, so the successes pay for the failures.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#23

Post by moonchrome »

gaius wrote: post #18
urza wrote: post #15

Bayer said it was "disappointed" and would "evaluate options to defend intellectual property rights" in the country. Down-vote me if you like, but I get sick to my stomach when I read sentences like this. If someone is able to deliver and sell the anti-cancer drug by 97% cheaper than you, then in my eyes you have no right to interfere. I am starting to dislike the whole concept of intellectual property and patents an…

If someone is able to deliver and sell the anti-cancer drug by 97% cheaper than you, then in my eyes you have no right to interfere ... Provided that that "someone" also bears their fair share of the cost of discovery and clinical trials. THAT is the issue here.

Those costs could be covered by the government in this case and they should increase the investment to match all money lost on dead end R&D and add standard going rate profits on top - on the grounds that it is a market failure of public good - R&D. Also the costs will be covered in the richer markets. I'm no fan of government interventions but the fact that we are having a debate around intellectual property shows how dire things are.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#24

Post by melling »

gaius wrote: post #18
urza wrote: post #15

Bayer said it was "disappointed" and would "evaluate options to defend intellectual property rights" in the country. Down-vote me if you like, but I get sick to my stomach when I read sentences like this. If someone is able to deliver and sell the anti-cancer drug by 97% cheaper than you, then in my eyes you have no right to interfere. I am starting to dislike the whole concept of intellectual property and patents an…

If someone is able to deliver and sell the anti-cancer drug by 97% cheaper than you, then in my eyes you have no right to interfere ... Provided that that "someone" also bears their fair share of the cost of discovery and clinical trials. THAT is the issue here.

Yes, it would be great if the Indian govt financed research into new medicines. India already makes a lot of the world's generic drugs. They could move up market and actually create new drugs. A win-win for [just about] everyone. Perhaps fund one of the IIT's and have it work with industry.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#25

Post by shalinmangar »

leonth wrote: post #9
corin_ wrote: post #5

I think few people would argue that drug companies' prices are reasonable, and when it comes to life vs. death I no longer care much about the "they're a business, they're allowed to make a profit" line - of course it's still true, and of course they are, but there's a (subjective) line between "making a good profit" and killing people through greed. That said, what pricing would be fair? When people claim that these…

Truth is, clinical trials are mind-bogglingly expensive and takes years for turnover. Also some newer drugs (I'm not sure about Nexavar) are rightfully expensive to manufacture due to requirements in equipment, sterile conditions, etc. If I were to say anything negative about this it would be that this sets a bad precedent for any new drugs coming to India -- knowing that the government can effectively void out drug…

In case of Nexavar, another company is able to manufacture far more cheaply and that says something about Bayer. Either they are unable to manufacture cheaply or they are unwilling to price it cheaper.

Suppose that big pharma stops selling drugs in India. That wouldn't make much difference because the generic drug manufacturers would still make cheap copies of the drugs. The only downside would be that new drugs will take time to be introduced because of the time needed to reverse engineer the formulae and set up manufacturing capabilities.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#26

Post by JumpCrisscross »

wisty wrote: post #20
corin_ wrote: post #5

I think few people would argue that drug companies' prices are reasonable, and when it comes to life vs. death I no longer care much about the "they're a business, they're allowed to make a profit" line - of course it's still true, and of course they are, but there's a (subjective) line between "making a good profit" and killing people through greed. That said, what pricing would be fair? When people claim that these…

Perhaps the FDA should bankroll clinical trials, subject to a pre-agreed price and a reasonable case that the trial will work out. Monopoly sellers and monopoly buyers is fairer than a monopoly seller.

This would result in:

(1) the FDA regulating access, pricing, and financing to the pharmaceutical industry, effectively nationalizing it, and,

(2) the US effectively bankrolling pharma for the rest of the world (it does this to a large extent already, but this would throw the scales all the way).

It would also have little effect on what innovator (or generic, for that matter) drug companies could charge outside the US.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#27

Post by getsat »

rmc wrote: post #13
jensnockert wrote: post #2

It would be interesting to see how much money was lost or gained by Bayer based on this. I assume that usage might go up by at least a factor 20 in India (and their production costs go down) so those 6% might actually be a fair deal in the long run.

remember that Bayer won't have to manufactor it, someone else does. They get a cut (6%) without having to do any work

They already did the overwhelming majority of the work. Developing that kind of stuff is expensive. I've seen estimates of ~100MM USD quoted for the discovery of a new drug.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#28

Post by JumpCrisscross »

moonchrome wrote: post #23
gaius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is able to deliver and sell the anti-cancer drug by 97% cheaper than you, then in my eyes you have no right to interfere ... Provided that that "someone" also bears their fair share of the cost of discovery and clinical trials. THAT is the issue here.

Those costs could be covered by the government in this case and they should increase the investment to match all money lost on dead end R&D and add standard going rate profits on top - on the grounds that it is a market failure of public good - R&D. Also the costs will be covered in the richer markets. I'm no fan of government interventions but the fact that we are having a debate around intellectual property shows h…

Covering bad R&D deadens the incentive for firms to do R&D efficiently - it's structurally identical to the implicit guarantees that are proving so problematic in finance.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#29

Post by ThomPete »

The reason why it's expensive to develop drugs is in large parts because of the process involved to get the approval.

Couldn't you turn this on it's head?

What if the companies could expense the cost of getting the approval. I.e. the tax payers pay for drugtesting and approval process.

Wouldn't this make sense? Since it's in the publics interest to get safe medicin, shouldn't they/we pay for that part.

Re: Indian Government uses special powers to slash cancer drug price by 97%

#30

Post by noble »

mattmanser wrote: post #22
urza wrote: post #15

Bayer said it was "disappointed" and would "evaluate options to defend intellectual property rights" in the country. Down-vote me if you like, but I get sick to my stomach when I read sentences like this. If someone is able to deliver and sell the anti-cancer drug by 97% cheaper than you, then in my eyes you have no right to interfere. I am starting to dislike the whole concept of intellectual property and patents an…

You seem very poorly informed about the subject. While I don't agree with the vast amount of lobbying a lot of pharma companies do, which in itself increases costs, the costs of R&D and the process of approval are huge. Get rid of drug patents, bye bye new drugs without direct g'vmt funding. Drugs are trivial to reverse engineer, incredibly expensive to invent. There is also a massive amount of drugs that go nowhere,…

The problem is that the govt is providing an artificial barrier to entry by other companies which protects the profits of the big pharma. Because of it the pharma companies have no incentive to reduce prices . They would rather spend the money on lobbying
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