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Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

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Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#61

Post by kmeisthax »

wlesieutre wrote: post #12
taeric wrote: post #5

I have a hard time getting behind some of these criticisms of audible and the like. Its annoying, as I am against most DRM schemes out there. But to pretend those came from "big tech" is laughable, at best. A ridiculously large portion of "tech" is perfectly fine with sending copies everywhere. Is literally how many of us get our operating system. Music files and shareware copying were huge before the internet. Mod f…

Audible reportedly only pays 25% to authors, bumping it up to 40% if they agree to exclusivity on Audible. Which of course a lot of authors do because they need the money, and then no other audiobook marketplace can compete.

The flip-side of this is that any author that doesn't agree to exclusivity is just leaving money on the table, because audiobook buyers will not touch alternative platforms unless it's their only option.

This isn't because Audible is head-and-shoulders above the competition either. They aren't. They just won the game of Monopoly[0].

[0] Someone should turn on house rules. Or - oooh maybe we could play the unused co-op mode

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#62

Post by taeric »

artichokeheart wrote: post #57
taeric wrote: post #5

I have a hard time getting behind some of these criticisms of audible and the like. Its annoying, as I am against most DRM schemes out there. But to pretend those came from "big tech" is laughable, at best. A ridiculously large portion of "tech" is perfectly fine with sending copies everywhere. Is literally how many of us get our operating system. Music files and shareware copying were huge before the internet. Mod f…

Did you actually read the article linked? There was no mention of margins. I question the motives of your comment. It reads like big tech bootlicking.

I read it. I confess I'm largely remembering previous articles that loved highlighting the amount of margin that Audible demands.

For the DRM complaint, I'm mostly sympathetic, but I have a really hard time believing it is not at the insistence of the publishing companies. They literally force library lending to go through similar DRM schemes. And it is largely in their interests to make sure you can't purchase the cheaper Audible version of a book and take it out of their ecosystem.

That last point is ultimately my main gripe here. Audible has incentives for you to buy more from them. Which they largely pursue not by locking your current purchases to them, but by offering better prices and funding better books. To try and "stick it to the man" by bitching about DRM schemes is a hell of a non-sequitur that smacks more of virtue signalling than it does actual concerns.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#63

Post by thfuran »

taeric wrote: post #56
thfuran wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But is your worry for the authors, for other platforms, or for customers? Yes. Shitty practices from a market player with significant monopoly power are bad for all of them.

So you can show that authors are getting less money in this environment? And, despite me being able to trivially show that I paid less per book than any offered alternative on the table, with the exception of the library, you claim I'm getting a raw deal now? We can even add in performers and others doing the recording to this question. Obviously, I only have the numbers on what I paid out. If you actually have the o…

>And no, you can't just say, "they would have gotten a larger cut in the other marketplaces," as I am literally asserting that Audible is the largest marketplace because they grew it

Ma Bell was the largest telecom because they grew the industry. That doesn't mean their actions once they had monopoly power in a large market were particularly beneficial to anyone but themselves.

>Again, if you are worried that they will "turn bad in the future,"

No, they already did. Their actions now are bad. Exclusivity deals are bad. Their enormous cut is bad.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#64

Post by taeric »

kmeisthax wrote: post #61
wlesieutre wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Audible reportedly only pays 25% to authors, bumping it up to 40% if they agree to exclusivity on Audible. Which of course a lot of authors do because they need the money, and then no other audiobook marketplace can compete.

The flip-side of this is that any author that doesn't agree to exclusivity is just leaving money on the table, because audiobook buyers will not touch alternative platforms unless it's their only option. This isn't because Audible is head-and-shoulders above the competition either. They aren't. They just won the game of Monopoly[0]. [0] Someone should turn on house rules. Or - oooh maybe we could play the unused co-o…

I am curious why you don't think they aren't better than the alternatives? Are they amazing and beyond improvement? Of course not. But most of the alternatives are crap.

This is basically the same as the sad affair of enterprise software. The vast majority of that industry is actively bad. Not just not good, but actively bad.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#65

Post by omgmajk »

TylerE wrote: post #58
taeric wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm old enough to remember it has almost always been publishers pushing drm. And yes, I remember serial port keys that tried to lock cad software. Some were keyed to physical sectors on hard drives.

Anyone who works with music software, to this day, deals with the pain of physical hardware keys. A few of the software players are moving from that to cloud based drm… which is at least less annoying since it doesn’t tie up a previous USB port. It’s called iLok.

>Anyone who works with music software, to this day, deals with the pain of physical hardware keys.

And anyone who works in the automotive industry, sadly.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#66

Post by Daishiman »

Jiro wrote: post #51
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I'll roll my eyes very hard every time I read the word "enshittification" Why? It seems like a good description that accurately describes the behavior and is reasonably obvious on first reading.

It's a horrible name. It obviously implies that something is being made shitty, but it fails to say what or how. "Enshittification" could just as easily mean "the process by which your computer fan gets clogged with dust" or "the process by which rice loses vitamins when you cook it too much". It's like calling it "bad stuff" except with more profanity.

As a web user of 26 years, it describes precisely what happens.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#67

Post by incongruity »

taeric wrote: post #62
artichokeheart wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you actually read the article linked? There was no mention of margins. I question the motives of your comment. It reads like big tech bootlicking.

I read it. I confess I'm largely remembering previous articles that loved highlighting the amount of margin that Audible demands. For the DRM complaint, I'm mostly sympathetic, but I have a really hard time believing it is not at the insistence of the publishing companies. They literally force library lending to go through similar DRM schemes. And it is largely in their interests to make sure you can't purchase the c…

I find it really hard to deny that platform lock-in is a powerful anti-competitive and anti-consumer force - I think you’re off base in denying its impacts and the merits of addressing it.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#68

Post by omgmajk »

Doctorow always has interesting stuff to read, I've been looking at most of his work for years now. The physical book will now be delivered to me when the Kickstarter ends as that's my preferred way of reading.

I kinda don't get audiobooks myself, I find it hard to concentrate on the book and often have to pause and go back and re-listen because I zoned out.

I guess this is semi-offtopic but I like Doctorow and he can have a slice of my money.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#69

Post by taeric »

thfuran wrote: post #63
taeric wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you can show that authors are getting less money in this environment? And, despite me being able to trivially show that I paid less per book than any offered alternative on the table, with the exception of the library, you claim I'm getting a raw deal now? We can even add in performers and others doing the recording to this question. Obviously, I only have the numbers on what I paid out. If you actually have the o…

>And no, you can't just say, "they would have gotten a larger cut in the other marketplaces," as I am literally asserting that Audible is the largest marketplace because they grew it Ma Bell was the largest telecom because they grew the industry. That doesn't mean their actions once they had monopoly power in a large market were particularly beneficial to anyone but themselves. >Again, if you are worried that they wi…

So you can't show that customers pay more, or that authors and performers get less? Got it.

Appeals to "Ma Bell" are basically my point? If it is shown that they are using their advantages in audio books to compete in other markets, or that they are causing active harm to customers/creators, then I will be far more sympathetic to the whining of rich creators.

It is frustrating, as I mostly agree with the idea that exclusive deals are bad. But this is a very nuanced take where they aren't forcing you to be exclusive, unless they literally funded and produced it. (See Sandman on Audible. I'd expect that to be exclusive for at least a time?) If you can show coercion that they are forcing people into this deal, and not honestly saying "if you agree to this, you will sell about the same total amount, and get more of the cut," I will be more than willing to change my mind on that.

Re: Kickstarting a book to end enshittification, because Amazon will not carry it

#70

Post by belorn »

taeric wrote: post #62
artichokeheart wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you actually read the article linked? There was no mention of margins. I question the motives of your comment. It reads like big tech bootlicking.

I read it. I confess I'm largely remembering previous articles that loved highlighting the amount of margin that Audible demands. For the DRM complaint, I'm mostly sympathetic, but I have a really hard time believing it is not at the insistence of the publishing companies. They literally force library lending to go through similar DRM schemes. And it is largely in their interests to make sure you can't purchase the c…

What other previous articles?

As for the last point, that one is not about Audible, so... what are we even discussing here? The article last argument, which is after discussing DRM and monopolies where users are captured into a locked market, is that google and apple has a 30% tax. They don't go into any depth over why a general 30% tax in a third-party market is bad in a duopoly situation, presumably because they don't feel it is necessary.

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