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Launch HN: Tiptap (YC S23) – Toolkit for developing collaborative editors

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Re: Launch HN: Tiptap (YC S23) – Toolkit for developing collaborative editors

#91

Post by patrickbaber »

matt_holden wrote: post #90

Congrats on the launch, and great you'll be dedicating more focus to Tiptap! If anyone wants to see another example of an app using Tiptap, I built https://duckbook.ai as a fun/free solo project (it's a Notion-like SQL notebook built on Tiptap, DuckDB, and GPT-4). I evaluated a bunch of editors (ProseMirror, TipTap, Remirror, Slate, Quill, Draft.js, Lexical) and went with TipTap. I've been generally happy with it, th…

Duckbook looks promising. I like the clean and neat design! I will share it with my colleagues.

I can take away your fear. The core of Tiptap will always be free and open source. We will do maintenance and improvement, but eventually we have to generate revenue to put Tiptap on a sustainable path. A few weeks ago, the work at our digital agency was funding Tiptap, and it has always been a challenge to balance these two branches.

We are trying to find a good balance between the open source part that a lot of people love and our paid services that give your project your advanced features.

We always think about our pricing model, as we literally do today! Feedback is always welcome to adjust the fine line between our open source and business parts.

Re: Launch HN: Tiptap (YC S23) – Toolkit for developing collaborative editors

#92

Post by patrickbaber »

danielvaughn wrote: post #88
patrickbaber wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, our collaboration backend Hocuspocus uses Yjs. We know the technologies we rely on, but we also know how important it is to find a sustainable way to maintain an open source project. For a popular project that a lot of other people rely on, this means getting money for development. Since Tiptap is also open source, we can see how the big players are using our project, and sponsor tiny amounts or nothing. We try…

I hope you guys do well, I'm a big fan of the open core model and I really enjoyed using TipTap. This is the client I integrated TipTap with if you're interested in collecting examples in the wild: https://bundleiq.com/

Interesting! How do you get my data into your system to train the AI?

Re: Launch HN: Tiptap (YC S23) – Toolkit for developing collaborative editors

#93

Post by patrickbaber »

raarts wrote: post #85

I used Remirror, TipTap with React. They were both great but I needed to implement custom editing behavior and that's where they both fall flat. Building your own extensions is poorly documented, and oh, by the way now you will have to learn ProseMirror anyway. Which has a learning curve you don't need. This even led to me dropping my project, maybe I need to revisit and check if docs improved now TipTap has funding.…

When did you try Tiptap? In the last few weeks we have made several improvements to our documentation, but you are right! At a certain point, if you want to do really custom things, you have to put Tiptap aside and dive deep into ProseMirror. The learning curve is pretty steep, and the documentation could use some more step-by-step information. You may have to give it a second try.

We are quite happy with the free tier. We may just make some small adjustments, but I think we'll stick with it!

Re: Launch HN: Tiptap (YC S23) – Toolkit for developing collaborative editors

#94

Post by patrickbaber »

tin7in wrote: post #87

Congrats on launching and happy to see Tiptap/hocuspocus growing. We are using hocuspocus and sponsored it at the very beginning. Excited to see the whole Yjs community growing.

Thank you for your early support. It means a lot to us! Do you use Hocuspocus with Tiptap or with another editor?

Re: Launch HN: Tiptap (YC S23) – Toolkit for developing collaborative editors

#95

Post by patrickbaber »

qwertox wrote: post #55
patrickbaber wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we continue to improve Tiptap, we would be interested in more details about the "rough corners". Do you have any examples?

The main problem had to do with fields inside a custom component not updating the tree (document JSON?) properly. These components could be nested, they had each a title and another variable-content field into which other components could be nested into. The title was a div.contenteditable and I had a hard time getting it to sync with the tree, some components were never able to do this. https://imgur.com/a/qKg9UUs (…

The pro extensions were not free a few weeks ago, and right now we are experimenting a bit with our free plan. To be honest, we can't give away everything for free. We see the free plan more as a way to find out what Tiptap is and how the additional services can help me reach my goal.

I hope you'll find the time to continue your project.

Re: Launch HN: Tiptap (YC S23) – Toolkit for developing collaborative editors

#96

Post by matt_holden »

patrickbaber wrote: post #91
matt_holden wrote: post #90

Congrats on the launch, and great you'll be dedicating more focus to Tiptap! If anyone wants to see another example of an app using Tiptap, I built https://duckbook.ai as a fun/free solo project (it's a Notion-like SQL notebook built on Tiptap, DuckDB, and GPT-4). I evaluated a bunch of editors (ProseMirror, TipTap, Remirror, Slate, Quill, Draft.js, Lexical) and went with TipTap. I've been generally happy with it, th…

Duckbook looks promising. I like the clean and neat design! I will share it with my colleagues. I can take away your fear. The core of Tiptap will always be free and open source. We will do maintenance and improvement, but eventually we have to generate revenue to put Tiptap on a sustainable path. A few weeks ago, the work at our digital agency was funding Tiptap, and it has always been a challenge to balance these t…

Cool, makes sense!

It seems like you're heading in the right direction on packaging/pricing.

Charging for services you manage, more team members, and security features bigger cos care about all make sense to me.

I previously looked at your Pro extensions and some seemed nice to have (UniqueId, emoji), but it wasn't enough to get me to pay, and I rolled my own versions of those instead.

Building multiplayer sync is really tricky, so providing that as a managed service seems valuable and worth paying for. I have no problem paying for services like Clerk.com or Liveblocks.io that involve managed "servers" I don't want to build/run vs a purely client-side library.

I recently discovered Liveblocks, and think their positioning/marketing/docs are great -- the fastest way to turn any SaaS app multiplayer.

I wonder if you could do something similar but focused on all the complexities of text editing (esp since it's such a core primitive for LLMs now). Just a thought - excited to see where you take it!

Re: Launch HN: Tiptap (YC S23) – Toolkit for developing collaborative editors

#98

Post by he11ow »

YousefED wrote: post #30

Congrats on the YC funding and the launch! I've enjoyed building https://www.blocknotejs.org on top of TipTap / Prosemirror. fyi, BlockNote aims to be a bit more batteries-included (comes with UI and block-based editing) - in case headless text-editing libraries are a bit too much work / steep learning curve.

This is absolutely marvelous! I've been looking for something just like this. The batteries included aspect matters a lot if you just want the damn thing to work within a larger workflow, and the text editor is just one step along the way. Looking forward to trying it out!

Re: Launch HN: Tiptap (YC S23) – Toolkit for developing collaborative editors

#99

Post by danielvaughn »

patrickbaber wrote: post #92
danielvaughn wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you guys do well, I'm a big fan of the open core model and I really enjoyed using TipTap. This is the client I integrated TipTap with if you're interested in collecting examples in the wild: https://bundleiq.com/

Interesting! How do you get my data into your system to train the AI?

Oh I just did some web development work for them a little over a year ago, where I added collaborative editing. It's an AI-powered note-taking app, with several integrations like Notion and (I believe) Google Docs. I haven't worked with them in a while so they may have changed their model, but once you give them permission they ingest all of that data and weave it into your own notes.

Re: Launch HN: Tiptap (YC S23) – Toolkit for developing collaborative editors

#100

Post by patrickbaber »

matt_holden wrote: post #96
patrickbaber wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duckbook looks promising. I like the clean and neat design! I will share it with my colleagues. I can take away your fear. The core of Tiptap will always be free and open source. We will do maintenance and improvement, but eventually we have to generate revenue to put Tiptap on a sustainable path. A few weeks ago, the work at our digital agency was funding Tiptap, and it has always been a challenge to balance these t…

Cool, makes sense! It seems like you're heading in the right direction on packaging/pricing. Charging for services you manage, more team members, and security features bigger cos care about all make sense to me. I previously looked at your Pro extensions and some seemed nice to have (UniqueId, emoji), but it wasn't enough to get me to pay, and I rolled my own versions of those instead. Building multiplayer sync is re…

Thank you for your feedback regarding our pricing!

We know that some individual Pro extensions don't justify the price of the whole tier. That's why we are thinking about selling individual extensions in the future. A lot of people build these types of extensions on their own, which is possible thanks to open source, and that's totally fine. In the last few weeks we have added more value to the paid tiers in the form of the advanced extensions TableofContents, Mathematics and the brand new Tiptap AI. We think it's worth it!

We feel the same about Managed Services. In addition to maintenance, support, development and so on, there are hardware resources that you have to pay for. We think that's fair.

I really like Liveblocks, the slick design, the impressive documentation and the detailed examples. We can learn a lot from them. As a technical decision maker I definitely wouldn't choose it because the backend source is closed source. The collaboration space is still new and there is no real standard in my opinion. The only (de-facto) standard can be an open source solution. In the end, at least the file format has to be interchangeable between a managed cloud and the open source core, regardless of the features around it. A few months ago I thought Yjs might become that standard, but it has too many rough edges. There are CRDTs popping up every month. We'll see.

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