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Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

ft.com

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Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#11

Post by ZeroGravitas »

When they say pollute in the headline, they mean only C02, which makes the headline misleading clickbait even for people who don't understand what the S and G in ESG stand for.

> It can very well be that a high-emitting firm is very good at governance or employee satisfaction. There is no strong relationship between employee satisfaction or any of these things and carbon intensity,” Goltz argued.

> “Even the environmental pillar is pretty unrelated to carbon emissions,” he added, with this rating partly determined by factors such as a company’s use of water resources and waste management practices.

It's amazing how something so utterly unremarkable has already inspired 4 unhinged comments.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#12

Post by monero-xmr »

Dig1t wrote: post #3

A component of ESG scores is how much you discriminate against white people. So of course you can have a good ESG score yet be a polluter.

You need to discriminate against Asians too! Or at least the algorithm I’ve seen used by universities and DEI HR groups ends up discriminating against them most.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#14

Post by Zigurd »

justrealist wrote: post #5

ESG is fairly obviously used to whitewash companies whose main product goes against ESG principles. It's a bunch of irrelevant window-dressing compared to the core concern of what a company is selling yet somehow that never makes it into the ESG metric. Ex, Tesla has a terrible ESG scores, and Philip Morris has great ones. Is that because PM's diverse board actually outweighs giving people cancer? No, it's just that…

It could be "a bunch of,,, window-dressing compared to the core concern of what a company is selling yet somehow that never makes it into the ESG metric."

That, however, is the easy part. It's obvious BP is Big Oil. Or that cigarette companies sell poison. Or that gun makers' lobbyists have made the US a needlessly dangerous place. A gun made out of recycled materials is still, obviously, a gun. An ESG score just tells you whether they aren't racist sexist scum, too.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#15

Post by zarathustreal »

Dig1t wrote: post #3

A component of ESG scores is how much you discriminate against white people. So of course you can have a good ESG score yet be a polluter.

The notion of a social score is absurd. You'd first have to define *society*. At least here in the USA, there is no monolithic society. Cultures differ greatly depending on which state you're in and sometimes even within a state.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#17

Post by epicureanideal »

Zigurd wrote: post #14
justrealist wrote: post #5

ESG is fairly obviously used to whitewash companies whose main product goes against ESG principles. It's a bunch of irrelevant window-dressing compared to the core concern of what a company is selling yet somehow that never makes it into the ESG metric. Ex, Tesla has a terrible ESG scores, and Philip Morris has great ones. Is that because PM's diverse board actually outweighs giving people cancer? No, it's just that…

It could be "a bunch of,,, window-dressing compared to the core concern of what a company is selling yet somehow that never makes it into the ESG metric." That, however, is the easy part. It's obvious BP is Big Oil. Or that cigarette companies sell poison. Or that gun makers' lobbyists have made the US a needlessly dangerous place. A gun made out of recycled materials is still, obviously, a gun. An ESG score just tel…

> An ESG score just tells you whether they aren't racist sexist scum, too.

Or that the direction of their sexism and racism goes in the scorer’s approved direction.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#18

Post by kornhole »

Dig1t wrote: post #3

A component of ESG scores is how much you discriminate against white people. So of course you can have a good ESG score yet be a polluter.

This explains why some of the most polluting and damaging companies can be the most woke in their training and marketing. This has led to a major backlash with some companies now advertising themselves as anti-ESG. Splitting out the scores that are determined by independent agencies (not fund managers) could maybe improve the situation, but the botched history will impede any efforts to reform.

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#19

Post by zarathustreal »

Zigurd wrote: post #14
justrealist wrote: post #5

ESG is fairly obviously used to whitewash companies whose main product goes against ESG principles. It's a bunch of irrelevant window-dressing compared to the core concern of what a company is selling yet somehow that never makes it into the ESG metric. Ex, Tesla has a terrible ESG scores, and Philip Morris has great ones. Is that because PM's diverse board actually outweighs giving people cancer? No, it's just that…

It could be "a bunch of,,, window-dressing compared to the core concern of what a company is selling yet somehow that never makes it into the ESG metric." That, however, is the easy part. It's obvious BP is Big Oil. Or that cigarette companies sell poison. Or that gun makers' lobbyists have made the US a needlessly dangerous place. A gun made out of recycled materials is still, obviously, a gun. An ESG score just tel…

If you think ESG scoring indicates anything about the culture of a company I've got a bridge to sell you

Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals

#20

Post by zarathustreal »

epicureanideal wrote: post #17
Zigurd wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be "a bunch of,,, window-dressing compared to the core concern of what a company is selling yet somehow that never makes it into the ESG metric." That, however, is the easy part. It's obvious BP is Big Oil. Or that cigarette companies sell poison. Or that gun makers' lobbyists have made the US a needlessly dangerous place. A gun made out of recycled materials is still, obviously, a gun. An ESG score just tel…

> An ESG score just tells you whether they aren't racist sexist scum, too. Or that the direction of their sexism and racism goes in the scorer’s approved direction.

100% this. Also, before we could even begin to score -isms we'd have to give them a concrete definition and that would obviate the need for a third-party to score them.
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