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I'm betting on HTML

catskull.net

271–280 of 458 posts

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#271

I've been meaning to build some utility websites like a simple forum and a simple pastebin and the like for a while just entirely without javascript, kind of like the old days. I want a simpler web with less bloat.

I'm not javascript free, but i've been actively pursueing building useful things with as little if any javascript and have been impressed with what I can get done with forms and html templating. A few years ago moving to a new area I was trying to find a CPA and saw simple brochure sites are loading 10+ mb of resources and 10+ JS snippets and realized how bad things have really gotten, even with an adblocker on these…

Always been fascinated with this type of development. I come from the era where JS was typically frowned upon, later learned to like it during ES6 because I had to use it a lot but now I mostly use it for Node and not the frontend anyways.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#272
post #249
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covered is stretching it. Most raw HTML elements look terrible and wouldn't pass muster with pretty much anyone. IMHO, this is a big miss with browsers. Sites look awful without styling and you have to be pretty good with CSS to even make them look passable. Way easier to reach for a framework with prebuilt components

This anecdote was a "pixel perfect" HTML version of some figma design. I did some CSS tricks to style the ` ` and was lucky the designer was lazy and never specified the styles of all the dialogs around date/time pickers (they weren't that important anyway). You can style a lot of these native elements. And where you cannot, I'd argue that's actually good. I've worked with designers who insisted that everything looke…

>You can style a lot of these native elements. And where you cannot, I'd argue that's actually good. I've worked with designers who insisted that everything looked and feeled the way they had designed it. But I've also worked with designers who, when showed how the date-picker looked on IOS, OSX and even Gnome, were incredibly happy that finally there was design that just followed what the users were used to.

The native browser date picker is very limited. You can't do basic things like disable weekends or select a range making it unsuitable for a wide swath of usecases.

>Point being: it will vary. But I'm certain we need all these JS UI-frameworks like MUI far less than we use them. I'm certain plain-old HTML, CSS and a little JS suffices far more often than it's currently used.

These UI frameworks are just plain-old HTML, CSS, and a little JS. All conveniently built for you to easy build a site that looks pretty good and covers most UX needs.

>This anecdote was a "pixel perfect" HTML version of some figma design. I did some CSS tricks to style the `` and was lucky the designer was lazy and never specified the styles of all the dialogs around date/time pickers (they weren't that important anyway).

If you had used MUI you wouldn't have had to do CSS tricks and if it's using a small fraction of MUI then treeshaking will result in a negligible amount of JS/CSS sent over the wire. So no real performance gain, harder for the next engineer, and no great path forward if the UI needs to be snazzier. It's just worse all around than picking one of the well known frameworks.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#273
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> on learning HTML Anecdote. Was recently freelancing at a web-agency. They build complex web-apps. Lot's of senior and experienced web-devs there: react, mui, typescript, tailwind, and a large host of backend frameworks under the belt. But when I built a quick PoC using ` ` a few lines of JS and some of the elements used in the article (meter, dialog, details) they were flabbergasted. This was a whole team of experi…

I don't think people realize how CSS3 and HTML5 will do everything they need. And also that no one actually enjoys using a SPA.

That would require accepting that the complexity merchants sold them a lie.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#274
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the webdev has to solve this problem. Users with wrong locales and not aware of that are not very uncommon. I would also love the US to fix their stupid date format and even fully adopt the metric standard but sometimes you have to compromise and write code instead.

WRT dates, there's no "metric" standard. Not really. E.g. Belgium commonly uses DD/MM/YYYY whereas the Netherlands uses DD-MM-YYYY. Both use "metric standard" for lengths, weights etc. Same with currencies: "13,37 €" vs "€ 13,37" vs "€13,37", all depending on where in Belgium you are from, vs Dutch in the Netherlands. It's an utter mess. Which is another reason to let browsers - the user agents - deal with this. Ther…

My bad, seems like the metric system is an old thing:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#275

I don't want to totally neg on web dev. But it does suck donkey balls. I've been doing it for years. From writing raw html,to using scripting langs, frameworks and what not. And the amount of time it takes to do not a lot I figure is just a colossal brain drain. We just went on holiday, and all I wanted to do was look up places to go eat and drink, or visit for the day, and most of the sites sucked. Or were out of da…

Part of this is the ever increasing amount of tags and elements in HTML files. Instead of being a document markup, it's a page markup, and it's difficult to discern where one stops and the other begins, although the W3C has tried with the addition of article and section elements. But then I suppose the raw HTML code was never meant to be read by other than devs in the first place, so there's that.

There was that small window of niceness, where the html diminished in size. Now it's just all pseudo inline styles painted by class names with lashings of scripts. Always surprised when you peek under pretty much a bereft page of nothing and it's a whole heap of code.

I'm one of those annoying people that just uses reader mode anyway - not that it always works. Because I get fed up of zooming in and out, inflating text size etc etc.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#276
post #172

Tangent. > I wrote this post and then GPT-4 fixed my grammer and spelling I wrote an Autohotkey + Go script that I constantly use for fixing grammar using ChatGPT's API. You can select the text, press F8, wait a bit, and your input will be replaced by correctly grammatical text. The only catch is that it "fixes" the tone and makes it professional, which is kinda annoying. Feel free to try it out: https://github.com/a…

> The only catch is that it "fixes" the tone and makes it professional, which is kinda annoying. Then why send your text to a slow third-party in the first place? There are craptons of spelling and grammar checkers available which will work offline, be significantly faster, consume less resources, and not change the meaning of your text. We solved this problem decades ago, we don’t need to shove AI in everything. It’…

Original Text

Grammar checkers are essentially typo checkers and are not context aware to be truly grammar checkers. Context aware grammar checking means the program has to consider each line of text and identify grammar mistakes. As traditional grammar checkers check typos in real time, every mistake you do is flashed in front of you. You have to stop evaluate, fix and continue. This is distracting.

My solution is to get your thoughts immediately out of your head in a big chunk. Check the grammar of that chunk of text in a single button press wait a few seconds and then just paste the text.

The tone shift is good in technical writing, but in forum style communication it kinda dehumanizes the comment. But it is not a major thing.

I use grammarly pro, but I find this solution to be extremely robust as this solution is platform and software agnostic. Like writing in my text editor - LiteXL.

Please feel free to give this method a shot for a week.

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Edit

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Grammar Checker with ChatGPT

Grammar checkers are essentially typo checkers and are not context aware enough to be considered truly accurate grammar checkers. Context aware grammar checking requires the program to analyze each line of text and identify grammar mistakes accordingly. Traditional grammar checkers usually highlight typos in real-time, which means that every mistake made is immediately brought to your attention. Consequently, you are forced to pause, evaluate the error, correct it, and then resume your writing, creating a distracting workflow.

My solution is to encourage you to initially get your thoughts out onto the page without worrying about the grammar. In this approach, you can check the grammar of the entire chunk of text with a single button press, wait a few seconds, and then conveniently paste the corrected text.

The tone shift is acceptable and even beneficial in technical writing; however, in forum-style communication, it can somewhat dehumanize the comment. Nonetheless, this is not considered a major issue.

Although I personally use Grammarly Pro, I find this solution to be highly effective as it does not depend on any specific platform or software. For instance, I can comfortably write in my text editor, LiteXL.

Please feel free to give this method a try for a week.

---

Grammarly Pro

Grammar checkers are essentially typo checkers and are not context aware enough to be considered genuinely accurate grammar checkers. Context-aware grammar checking requires the program to analyze each line of text and identify grammar mistakes accordingly. Traditional grammar checkers usually highlight typos in real-time, meaning every mistake made is immediately brought to your attention. Consequently, you are forced to pause, evaluate, correct the error, and then resume your writing, creating a distracting workflow.

My solution is encouraging you to get your thoughts onto the page without worrying about the grammar. In this approach, you can check the grammar of the entire chunk of text with a single button press, wait a few seconds, and then conveniently paste the corrected text.

The tone shift is acceptable and even beneficial in technical writing; however, forum-style communication can somewhat dehumanize the comment. Nonetheless, this is not considered a significant issue.

Although I use Grammarly Pro, this solution is highly effective as it does not depend on any specific platform or software. For instance, I can comfortably write in my text editor, LiteXL.

Please feel free to give this method a try for a week.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#278
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> on learning HTML Anecdote. Was recently freelancing at a web-agency. They build complex web-apps. Lot's of senior and experienced web-devs there: react, mui, typescript, tailwind, and a large host of backend frameworks under the belt. But when I built a quick PoC using ` ` a few lines of JS and some of the elements used in the article (meter, dialog, details) they were flabbergasted. This was a whole team of experi…

I don't think people realize how CSS3 and HTML5 will do everything they need. And also that no one actually enjoys using a SPA.

Part of the slow adoption of ultra modern HTML tags might be that the divorce from Internet Explorer 6 to 10 finished so recently that no one has bothered to update their knowledge yet. In my corporate environment, IE 11 was removed only last year.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#279

The problem I see with sematic web is that no matter how easy it gets, developers refuse to use it properly. I have been looking closely at the tag since a browser extension of mine uses it, and although it is extremely clear what it should do in the MDN documentation (the documentation itself is a good example usage of , etc.), very little sites use it properly. Even the fancy professional sites wrap all the page co…

The same developers who misuse http verbs, no less.

We shouldn't pretend that these things are contracts

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#280

I don't want to totally neg on web dev. But it does suck donkey balls. I've been doing it for years. From writing raw html,to using scripting langs, frameworks and what not. And the amount of time it takes to do not a lot I figure is just a colossal brain drain. We just went on holiday, and all I wanted to do was look up places to go eat and drink, or visit for the day, and most of the sites sucked. Or were out of da…

You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned WhatsApp. In my country in Africa WhatsApp is so popular so much so that mobile network providers even sell WhatsApp data bundles. If I want to find something, like wire fencing I start by asking WhatsApp groups I am in. Family, neighborhood and even high school friends. Typically I get a few numbers and then I WhatsApp the service provider and I get up to date information. The service providers can't afford up to date web sites. WhatsApp also has a feature to include a catalogue in your profile. This is for business accounts which are also free.
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