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I'm betting on HTML

catskull.net

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Re: I'm betting on HTML

#101

Post by fauigerzigerk »

p-e-w wrote: post #26

HTML is the solution to walled-garden lock-in? What? Those walled gardens already use HTML, including some of the semantic elements mentioned (plus ARIA semantic attributes, which are much more sophisticated). > ChatGPT-like interfaces are likely the future of human data access. And the whole point of artificial intelligence systems is that they don't require specialized "machine-readable" annotations in order to pro…

AI in general could "see" a website like we see it. But LLMs specialise in text. They will find it much easier to figure out the correct semantic interpretation of tag soup than deriving the same information from the rendered output like we do.

Also, the big question is cost. I think semi structured text will forever be far cheaper for an AI to process than a completely unstructured data stream representing visual information.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#103

Post by Animats »

andai wrote: post #89
Dalewyn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And they stick out like a sore thumb when you get a windows 7 style component in the middle of a modern looking app. Wouldn't that be a feature? "Modern looking" as far as I'm concerned means "Can't figure out WTF this bloody thing is." and that assumes I even know there is a thing in the first place.

I noticed this helping an elderly neighbor with her banking. "No, you don't click there, but there... you can tell because..." then realized there's literally no way to tell. It's all flat.

then realized there's literally no way to tell. It's all flat.

I hate that. I'm waiting for that fad to be over. I kind of liked material design, but it's too much of a pain to put into everything. Flat, borderless, and unidentified is so easy to do.

The all flat approach encourages dark patterns. Lists of trackers you can opt out of, scrollable, with no scroll bar and no window border. There are important buttons hidden which, if pressed, do things favorable to the user but unfavorable to the site operator.

Also, the pop-up box with no visible dismiss button, just an "x" which appears if you mouse over it.

A non-web example - someone made the console window in Ubuntu borderless. If you have two console windows overlapping, you can't see the boundary.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#105

Post by Timwi »

andai wrote: post #96
vermilingua wrote: post #85

Amusingly, the MDN guidance [0] on vs is exactly backwards from the example they give a paragraph below: > The element represents stress emphasis of its contents, while the element represents text that is set off from the normal prose, such as... when the text refers to the definition of a word instead of representing its semantic meaning. And then [1]: In HTML 5, what was previously called block-level content is now…

I thought was semantic ("emphasis") and is stylistic ("italics")? And last I heard (when came out) you weren't supposed to use anymore because it's bad form to use HTML for styling! Much like .

Yes, that was the mantra some 15–20 years ago. Then HTML 5 came out, in which was indeed obsoleted, but // weren't and instead got a semantic meaning. (A semantic meaning which, admittedly, is subtle, borderline esoteric, so it's very rarely used as intended.)

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#106

Post by NovaDudely »

catskull wrote: post #50
NovaDudely wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eeyup! Whooo! reverb noise

Also check out Gizzhead.org - my site for tracking their live sets!

Nice, I love it!

That said, I live in Melbourne, Australia, so yeah they are considered a local group - information travels fast here to support them. That said, it feels like they perform more in the US than here!

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#107

Post by teaearlgraycold »

jamamp wrote: post #22
klardotsh wrote: post #9

I had heard of almost none of these HTML elements, and that's such a shame, because they could seriously help put the "we need JavaScript for every gosh darn thing" ecosystem to an end (or at least return JS to what it was originally meant to be: a way to add some flair, some interactivity, some whatever, but not necessarily a replacement for all of your markup and a full-DOM manager). I'm starting to think my dream…

You might like this: http://youmightnotneedjs.com/

A good resource for developers targeting the tor browser set to secure mode.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#108

Post by renegade-otter »

klardotsh wrote: post #9

I had heard of almost none of these HTML elements, and that's such a shame, because they could seriously help put the "we need JavaScript for every gosh darn thing" ecosystem to an end (or at least return JS to what it was originally meant to be: a way to add some flair, some interactivity, some whatever, but not necessarily a replacement for all of your markup and a full-DOM manager). I'm starting to think my dream…

I just ran into "datalist" and my first impression was "wow, game changer". The behavior is the same across browsers but the appearance is strictly browser-specific. You can't style it with CSS.

Sometimes the list displays the text of the data, sometimes, the text and the "value" attribute. So you are not selecting "Atlanta" - you are selecting "234290780 Atlanta" (the ID and the value).

And with the on-click action, you can't just get the ID - you have to get the whole thing and parse the ID out.

It just seems... abandoned.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#110

Post by petepete »

nicbou wrote: post #79
inopinatus wrote: post #71

Mostly agree, but datepickers are still a problem. The range of user experiences is so broad, and sometimes so counterintuitive (fuck you in particular, Android), that I still hesitate to suggest a native date input.

Gov.uk recommends against them. This should be enough to discourage most people.

There are some situations where date pickers do make sense, like when booking an appointment in the future - being able to see the day is useful. Being able to overlay the date picker with other information like days where you're free or when appointment slots are available makes them unbeatable.

But, when asking for a date people know, like their date of birth, date pickers just slow people down and confuse them. User research has shown this repeatedly.

https://github.com/alphagov/govuk-design-system-backlog/issu...

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