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I'm betting on HTML

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Re: I'm betting on HTML

#91
The very first sentence:

"With the advent of large language model-based artificial intelligence, semantic HTML is more important now than ever"

No it's not, LLM basically invalidates the entire concept of semantic web, which never worked anyway.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#94

The point of walled garden is that they are very tempting to stay inside off for users. Their power comes from most users not resisting that temptation. Becoming the equivalent of a digital hermit and living in a hole in the ground outside these walls, which is what I would characterize this as, is not going to result on a lot of people stepping outside those walls. If you've ever watched Life of Brian, you'll have a…

I think there's a middle ground here where we're building good-looking web pages with a sub-10 MB weight. Unfortunately, it makes no business sense to do so.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#95
post #26

HTML is the solution to walled-garden lock-in? What? Those walled gardens already use HTML, including some of the semantic elements mentioned (plus ARIA semantic attributes, which are much more sophisticated). > ChatGPT-like interfaces are likely the future of human data access. And the whole point of artificial intelligence systems is that they don't require specialized "machine-readable" annotations in order to pro…

ChatGPT (and its future offspring) can navigate regular websites the same way humans do

It seems to be at least a not-yet-true claim, but let’s ignore that for now. It’s interesting if LLMs actually could do this. As I understand it, LLMs are trained on texts and source code among other things. But lacking… let’s name it a reasoning apparatus, can they really look at a DOM tree and tell what it is/does? It’s not a text, and barely can be a well-structured source code that was ever discussed (it’s a result of either bundling or componentization). This is almost on par with “LLMs will look at any .exe and be able to integrate with it immediately”.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#96

Amusingly, the MDN guidance [0] on vs is exactly backwards from the example they give a paragraph below: > The element represents stress emphasis of its contents, while the element represents text that is set off from the normal prose, such as... when the text refers to the definition of a word instead of representing its semantic meaning. And then [1]: In HTML 5, what was previously called block-level content is now…

I thought was semantic ("emphasis") and is stylistic ("italics")? And last I heard (when came out) you weren't supposed to use anymore because it's bad form to use HTML for styling! Much like .

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#97
post #26

HTML is the solution to walled-garden lock-in? What? Those walled gardens already use HTML, including some of the semantic elements mentioned (plus ARIA semantic attributes, which are much more sophisticated). > ChatGPT-like interfaces are likely the future of human data access. And the whole point of artificial intelligence systems is that they don't require specialized "machine-readable" annotations in order to pro…

You don’t need a good old Python script using Beautiful soup, you can use an LLM with the added benefit of not dealing with that cruft.

An LLM is much slower and requires more resources at runtime than Beautiful Soup (if you are hosting yourself), and could fail to retrieve data. It's a worse solution unless your HTML parser/scraper is broken by website changes.

This is only the case for now, however. I expect this to change in favour of LLMs as time goes on and they become easier to deploy and better at their job.

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#98
post #19

I find it interesting that many of the comments here seem to view this as an anti JS article. To me a lot of these are going to be immensely useful tools in combination with the TS heavy frameworks we use for modern Enterprise App frontends, exactly because they are HTML native tools that aren’t going to require a bunch of stuff. Like the meter tag, which I assume will replace every loading module we currently use in…

I think (at least with my comment that's one of the kind you alluded to) my hope is that it replaces huge piles of JavaScript code. I have, sadly, no illusions of a JS-free web, but at least we could get rid of huge gobs of it and have more-standard UX that the system can help guide and shape (with the benefits that entails).

It also enables a whole slew of new applications to be made that need way less JS than we used to need. So while, sure, these might be in-place "upgrades" for existing Enterprise TS apps, the hope is that it'll allow shunning those Enterprise Frameworks entirely for net-new app development. Or at least, a boy can dream, right?

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#99
post #5

Great read and interactive demo. After a few years of dabbling with Flutter I just came back to the same conclusion: bet on HTML. Astro / Tailwind / Daisy UI / Alpine.js makes it lovely to build an HTML site with a lot of simple SSR and a little bit of client side reactivity peppered about. The result is simple sane HTML files that look and work great on desktop web browser and and mobile wrapped web view. My app is…

After trying a bunch of fancy frameworks and platforms I ended up doing exactly this - a static site with alpinejs and tailwind. It has been by far the best decision I've ever made. And the best thing is I'm confident any new dev will be able to pick up my 100 line build file and grok it in about 3min. No matter whether they're react, angular, PHP or python folks - it's dead simple and I love it.

My build system is cat!

Re: I'm betting on HTML

#100
post #94

The point of walled garden is that they are very tempting to stay inside off for users. Their power comes from most users not resisting that temptation. Becoming the equivalent of a digital hermit and living in a hole in the ground outside these walls, which is what I would characterize this as, is not going to result on a lot of people stepping outside those walls. If you've ever watched Life of Brian, you'll have a…

I think there's a middle ground here where we're building good-looking web pages with a sub-10 MB weight. Unfortunately, it makes no business sense to do so.

Sub 10MB? That's a whole YouTube video!
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