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The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

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Re: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

#61

Post by ldjkfkdsjnv »

game_the0ry wrote: post #56
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commented this below, but: People can do things like take loans against their investment gains, use that money for other investing. It can absolutely be invisible to the IRS as they skirt tax laws. Another example, take the construction industry. Its estimated that half the money getting paid to construction contractors is under the table.

> People can do things like take loans against their investment gains, use that money for other investing. True, and asset prices go up even more, but what happens when they can't get the financing or have to start selling to pay down the financing of other assets as prices go down?

The economy starts to crash and the government prints more money, causing inflation. Which is then a tax on regular americans.

Re: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

#62

Post by linguae »

game_the0ry wrote: post #7

I grew in upper middle class southern California. I work in tech for the last 7 years. My parents house went from $500K when they bought in 1995 to +$3M today. If my math is right, that would mean the all-in payment (principal, interest, taxes) would be around $20,000/month at today's rate. Assume you do not want to spend more than 1/3 of your income on housing, your household would need to make $720,000/year. Nomina…

Unfortunately essential workers who don’t make extremely high incomes typically face grueling commutes from far-flung areas or they live in cramped conditions. While living with tons of roommates is sometimes done by single people, for families with children roommate situations are quite undesirable, and so megacommuting is often the only option for those who can’t afford to rent or buy closer to work. I’ve heard of San Jose police officers who commute from Los Banos, a Central Valley town that’s roughly an 80 mile drive away. I believe Tesla’s Fremont factory has a bus for its workers that starts all the way from Modesto. When I lived in the Palmdale area 15 years ago for a summer to do an internship, I saw commuter buses that went all the way to Westside Los Angeles, which is 75 miles away.

Having to commute 3-6 hours per day round-trip is grueling, and it’s sadly the reality for many Californians who do it because they can’t afford to live closer to work.

Re: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

#63

Post by chrisco255 »

josephjrobison wrote: post #4

As a resident who was born here and left and then came back, I’ve had this idea kicking around in my head of “California is a luxury product”. If you look at the entire US, and assume you have the ability to move and live in any state, there are lots of options for everyone at every income level. (Disclaimer that this doesn’t address poverty, DEI, and other limitations to a good chunk of citizens). From the Gold Rush…

They moved to CA in the 1840s to seek to get rich, not because they were already rich.

People moved to CA to try to make it big in movies or music, although most failed, they still lived a pretty good lifestyle throughout most of the 20th century. Not because they were already Brad Pitt or Madonna.

People moved to Silicon Valley, initially just to get jobs at a burgeoning semiconductor industry a few decades ago. Then later to start up companies in personal computing or internet businesses. Not because they were already Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos. Although most people never got that level of success, there was still a pretty good lifestyle available to young adults in the valley throughout most of the late 20th century.

Most people throughout California's history moved there for opportunity not as a luxury.

Re: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

#64

Post by squid_fm »

meragrin_ wrote: post #49
squid_fm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 100% a luxury product for one reason alone: weather. Having lived in areas with harsh winters and then moving back to CA, you’re basically paying to gain an extra 3 months of life every year.

> you’re basically paying to gain an extra 3 months of life every year. Huh? How so?

Harsh winters and humid summers are quite miserable. People are less likely to want to go out, certain businesses are closed, specific activities are not possible, etc.

The amount of “nice days” you get in CA is much greater than elsewhere in the US.

Re: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

#65

Post by francisofascii »

josephjrobison wrote: post #4

As a resident who was born here and left and then came back, I’ve had this idea kicking around in my head of “California is a luxury product”. If you look at the entire US, and assume you have the ability to move and live in any state, there are lots of options for everyone at every income level. (Disclaimer that this doesn’t address poverty, DEI, and other limitations to a good chunk of citizens). From the Gold Rush…

It reminds me of cost of a minor league baseball game ticket, which is several times cheaper than a major league game. Of course the major league game is "better", but is it really 500% better? The seats, the game, pitching speeds, the hot dogs, beer, etc. are all the same. California is better than most places in the US, but probably not worth the financial hardship that people need to suffer to live there.

Re: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

#66

Post by linguae »

squid_fm wrote: post #41
josephjrobison wrote: post #4

As a resident who was born here and left and then came back, I’ve had this idea kicking around in my head of “California is a luxury product”. If you look at the entire US, and assume you have the ability to move and live in any state, there are lots of options for everyone at every income level. (Disclaimer that this doesn’t address poverty, DEI, and other limitations to a good chunk of citizens). From the Gold Rush…

It is 100% a luxury product for one reason alone: weather. Having lived in areas with harsh winters and then moving back to CA, you’re basically paying to gain an extra 3 months of life every year.

That’s one of the hardest things about leaving California as a lifelong Californian who is accustomed to Mediterranean climates: there’s nowhere else in the United States with this type of climate. It’s generally your choice of cold winters (much of the northern US), very humid summers (the South and the East Coast), or a very long rainy season (the Pacific Northwest). Even the weather of California’s Central Valley, which has hot, dry summers, is a vast improvement over much of the rest of the country.

It’s not that I can’t deal with the weather; I dream of living in the Tokyo area again despite its brutally hot and humid summers. But it’s going to be difficult giving up a Mediterranean climate.

Re: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

#67

Post by tromp »

squid_fm wrote: post #64
meragrin_ wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you’re basically paying to gain an extra 3 months of life every year. Huh? How so?

Harsh winters and humid summers are quite miserable. People are less likely to want to go out, certain businesses are closed, specific activities are not possible, etc. The amount of “nice days” you get in CA is much greater than elsewhere in the US.

Even compared to Hawaii?

Re: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

#68

Post by reducesuffering »

mrguyorama wrote: post #55

I don't understand Californian sprawl. When I interviewed at google, I stayed at a hotel in sunnyvale. To do ANYTHING required a drive, because NOTHING is walking distance because EVERYTHING is six lanes wide with a divided median and a 400 car parking lot. It's insanity. Sunnyvale surely isn't the most populated and busy area I'm sure, but I can't understand making ANYTHING like that for anyone. It's so dystopic, ne…

Ya, that's 90% of the country. If anything, California is one of the biggest current densifiers, as the major metros have hit the natural borders and need to densify to accomodate new people. Lots of multistory and transit going up; not enough, but more than most places.

Re: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

#69

Post by ChuckMcM »

josephjrobison wrote: post #42
sib wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Prop 13 property taxes reset on sales ... and property turnover rates in California are generally in excess of 10%. What that means is that pretty much all of the taxes are reset every 10 years or so That would be assuming certain things, among which would be that if 10% of properties sell every year, there is a consistent 10% chance of a given property selling each year. What I can tell you from looking at the da…

In some (or all?) counties, if you move to another house in the same county you can keep your original tax base. Transferring a Principal Residence Value within a County “Proposition 60 (Revenue and Taxation Code 69.5) Property owners of at least 55 years of age may transfer the base year value of their principal residence to a replacement principal residence. The replacement must be of equal or lesser current market…

As of 2023 this is true any county to any county. What they took away was being able to inherit the tax base on rental properties.

Re: The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

#70

Post by squid_fm »

tromp wrote: post #67
squid_fm wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harsh winters and humid summers are quite miserable. People are less likely to want to go out, certain businesses are closed, specific activities are not possible, etc. The amount of “nice days” you get in CA is much greater than elsewhere in the US.

Even compared to Hawaii?

Fair point. I would argue that Hawaii also falls into this category (and it seems reflected in their housing prices).
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