Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

marijuanamoment.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 266 posts

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#81

Post by mrguyorama »

yieldcrv wrote: post #10
Der_Einzige wrote: post #2

[flagged]

“your stoner friends”, lol, where are people like you still found? In California, and the entire West Coast, recreational use of marijuana is as normal as alcohol use. People that use substances are different than those that abuse substances, and yet you are conflating the two. “Senate lets people that have had a drink before work at Intelligence agencies” “my alcoholic friends working as spooks would be a threat to…

There's a difference between a person who uses weed for fun, and a "stoner" which is closer to a functioning addict. A person who takes a toke every other night "to calm down" probably isn't a stoner. The guy who has to puff before work because he doesn't function otherwise is a stoner.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#82

Post by fragmede »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #49
jedberg wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A (very talented) friend of mine was supposed to work at the White House during the Obama admin. He got as far as signing documents and moving from California to Washington DC. That was when they told him that his offer was rescinded for past use of marijuana. They said there were no exceptions to the rule, but it was the only reason he was denied.

I know multiple people with clearances who have used marijuana and significantly harder drugs as well and were honest about this on their clearance paperwork. I obviously don't know the specifics of your friend's case but it is not true in general that intelligence agencies (White House may be different or maybe was in the past) must deny you for past marijuana use, particularly if you admit to it early on. Edit: mar…

That would be back in 2009, though. Things were different back then.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#83

Post by bognition »

crmd wrote: post #57

Marijuana (along with multi-lingualism) is a big reason why the Mormon-American community is significantly over-represented in the US intelligence community.

Mormonism is perfect for raising little worker bees.

Mormonism deeply values work ethic and breeds a strong trust of authority.

You're taught at an early age questioning authority is a sin and doing what your leaders tell you is the right thing to do.

The end result is a group of people who are hard working, don't question leadership, and do what they are told.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#84

Post by derefr »

jedberg wrote: post #46
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t see how someone can possibly be expected to have the personality to gather (human) intel, but somehow not ever have smoked weed. It's not clear to me how these would have absolutely any relationship at all.

To gather human intel you have to be willing to do things like drink in social situation and (gasp) sometimes do drugs with the people you're trying to collect intel from, to gain their friendship. In other words, you need to have a slightly adventurous personality.

You're conflating being an intelligence operative with being an intelligence agent. The salaried employees of the CIA (operatives et al) do not "drink and do drugs with people they're trying to collect intel from." They recruit local contacts (agents) to do that for them.

Think: DEA employee, vs. DEA criminal informant. The job of the DEA employee is not to infiltrate drug gangs. It's to organize and monitor the infiltration of drug gangs. The criminal informant wears the wire. The DEA employee sits in the black van outside, listening to the wire.

The most common position in the CIA is "analyst." The job of a CIA analyst is to sit there in a cubicle and read/listen to all the evidence gathered by agents (or spy satellites, or wiretaps, or whatever), gathering any "interesting" stuff into a report (with a further fan-in to "senior analysts" who map-reduce all those reports into "intelligence".) Unlike an operative, an analyst doesn't even get to speak with any agents — let alone head out into the field to recruit them.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#85

Post by astrange »

motohagiography wrote: post #28

Let me be the first to welcome people with more diverse substance abuse problems to our beloved secret police. My greatest regret is that I can only declare a mere hour of applause for their great personal sacrifices and worthily earned pensions. Tbh, I kind of liked the idea that decriminalization and liberal attitudes were starving them for talent.

Spying prevents war. It's easier to get into a war if you don't really understand each other. Not to mention if you don't know who has missiles pointed at you.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#86

Post by pengaru »

momirlan wrote: post #25

how can they detect that someone "used marijuana" once long time ago ?

I thought part of getting anything like a security clearance involves their interviewing people from your past. So all it takes is one of those people admitting they smoked pot with you under the bleachers in high school, for example.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#87

Post by zmgsabst »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #51
jedberg wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To gather human intel you have to be willing to do things like drink in social situation and (gasp) sometimes do drugs with the people you're trying to collect intel from, to gain their friendship. In other words, you need to have a slightly adventurous personality.

Most people I know who have an adventurous personality don't smoke weed. Drinking I can see a case for as it's so heavily embedded as a social activity. Just anecdotal data I suppose but I'm not seeing a similar connection for having done drugs. Perhaps for someone who is undercover and needs to fit in, sure, but I don't think that predisposes a personality to take drugs in their own time. For both alcohol and drugs…

Half (49%) of US adults have tried marijuana.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/353645/nearly-half-adults-tried...

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#88

Post by idjrgisjet »

I remember when I was in the Navy, running a nuclear power plant on a ship that carried nuclear weapons, and the Chief of the Boat regularly showed up to work so drunk he couldn't speak (having driven himself to work) and everyone ignored it and when juniors complained seniors threatened to fabricate charges against them to shut them up, and listening to that guy scream and yell about how anyone who smokes cannabis is a fucking loser, a total garbage piece of shit, not even a real human being, and genuinely having difficulty not laughing and/or screaming. What a fucking joke that place was.

Friends in the intelligence community have told me they have as many extreme, extreme alcoholics as the Navy does, and that's just fine, part of the "culture", but oh boy, cannabis is not acceptable. Not sure if it was always like that, or just recently because they have recruiting problems.

I also have friends at national labs watching this very enthusiastically, hoping it spills over to their sector, because they have difficulty recruiting PhDs who are willing to get randomly piss tested.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#89

Post by cjohnson318 »

treeman79 wrote: post #67
motohagiography wrote: post #28

Let me be the first to welcome people with more diverse substance abuse problems to our beloved secret police. My greatest regret is that I can only declare a mere hour of applause for their great personal sacrifices and worthily earned pensions. Tbh, I kind of liked the idea that decriminalization and liberal attitudes were starving them for talent.

[flagged]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, beyond "do your own research" and "they don't want you to know".

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#90

Post by Teever »

meroes wrote: post #69
VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got denied an internship at the CIA for my past drug use, which was entirely trying marijuana after it became legal in my home state. I don’t see how someone can possibly be expected to have the personality to gather (human) intel, but somehow not ever have smoked weed.

I think it's because the CIA has been a very self-similar group for decades (Mormons). They have blinders of their own.

I thought it was the NSA that was all Mormons?
Post reply on HN