Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

marijuanamoment.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 266 posts

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#31

Post by csydas »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #21
csydas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er, it was never a strategy in the first place? Or this is just a joke? :) But to be clear, law enforcement agents (all as far as I'm aware) are allowed to do illegal things to catch their mark. In the US at least, this is not entrapment unless they forcibly coerce you to do something you normally wouldn't; just smoking or snorting some stuff in a casual setting isn't enough, they'd have to have you more or less at g…

I'm not talking about law enforcement. Consider that many people on HN do work that the spooks would find "interesting" but would not be "illegal". As such, most of the intelligence community is not related to law enforcement. You might be surprised about just how many 3 and 4 letter agencies exist.

Er, it doesn't matter though :) Federal "spook" agencies do the same thing and are equally above the law. You can't know really if your past business partners joined you for a fun evening just because or if their multi-letter work places got all the forms in order for them to do "whatever it takes" to catch you doing something illegal.

If your active threat scope involves governments, don't expect them to behave with regards to the laws where you are; either they don't care and will just deal with the fallout, or they have explicit approval do to illegal or wrong things.

I don't have an answer on how to check for spooks, I guess you'd have to do reverse reconnaissance, but I have no idea how feasible it is. But testing legal and social norms is not reliable; governments are not really bound by their own rules, especially when it comes to branches dealing with security or intelligence.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#34

Post by gazby »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #7

You could already get a clearance with past marijuana use (and other drugs) but I guess this would just make it so someone couldn't be denied a clearance solely for that reason.

In addition to the rules being applied fairly indiscriminately, "past" is doing some pretty heaving lifting here. Last I knew six months was the most recent it could have been used if you were extremely lucky/valuable.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#35

Post by TomK32 »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #12
sparrish wrote: post #5

Yeah, cause those are the people we want most paranoid?!

As I understand it the drug use screening in a security clearance isn't so much because the government are squares but it's that illegal drug use is something that could be used to blackmail you. The worry is if the KGB learns about your cocaine habit they could confront you and demand you work for them as a double agent or they'll expose your illegal activities and ruin your life.

Work as a double agent then: make the FSB think they got you and feed them false information. Your own service obviously has to keep a no-drugs policy front to make your situation more legit.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#36

Post by monksy »

standardly wrote: post #16
qbasic_forever wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it the drug use screening in a security clearance isn't so much because the government are squares but it's that illegal drug use is something that could be used to blackmail you. The worry is if the KGB learns about your cocaine habit they could confront you and demand you work for them as a double agent or they'll expose your illegal activities and ruin your life.

When it comes to cannabis, that obviously isn't much of a factor. How the hell could someone be blackmailed over weed? Most people that use, don't care who knows, certainly not enough to literally commit treason to your country to hide it. I think the major problem is just in principle: it's federally illegal so if you use it you are a criminal thus can't hold clearance

> How the hell could someone be blackmailed over weed?

Legal in your state, eh who cares.

Working for FBI/CIA/NSA.. most people don't care for state level repercussions. But KGB threatens (oh they would for funsies) to reach over to talk to CIA that you're in violatoin.. bang loss of job, questioning of your prior work, legal consequences (you lied to get the job), etc...

That's the threat.

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#37

Post by monksy »

jonathankoren wrote: post #20
qbasic_forever wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it the drug use screening in a security clearance isn't so much because the government are squares but it's that illegal drug use is something that could be used to blackmail you. The worry is if the KGB learns about your cocaine habit they could confront you and demand you work for them as a double agent or they'll expose your illegal activities and ruin your life.

It's not just blackmail. There's also the fear that addiction to expensive controlled substances will lead to money problems, and thus the desire to sell some of the valuable secrets you have.

One of the questions they ask is on alcohol (also with gambling): Have you ever suffered financial consequences as a result of your drinking.

Being super honest I answered: Yes, I spend more money than I plan on when going out frequently. (Limiting to 20$ of drinks, and it ends up being 25..this was more than a decade ago and I was fresh out of school)

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#38

Post by tough »

VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #30
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #7

You could already get a clearance with past marijuana use (and other drugs) but I guess this would just make it so someone couldn't be denied a clearance solely for that reason.

I got denied an internship at the CIA for my past drug use, which was entirely trying marijuana after it became legal in my home state. I don’t see how someone can possibly be expected to have the personality to gather (human) intel, but somehow not ever have smoked weed.

Maybe the CIA expects you to be smart enough to lie to them about not breaking the rules to hire you in the first place?

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#39

Post by tough »

hyperbovine wrote: post #29
momirlan wrote: post #25

how can they detect that someone "used marijuana" once long time ago ?

They can't, of course. But then your only option is to lie to a federal agent. https://news.clearancejobs.com/2016/04/02/consequences-lying...

If it's a CIA interview don't you get a pass if you lie to the liars?

Re: Senate votes to let people who’ve used marijuana work at intelligence agencies

#40

Post by speed_spread »

momirlan wrote: post #25

how can they detect that someone "used marijuana" once long time ago ?

They don't have to detect it, they'll ask as part of the security interview. The interview is very thorough and requires to be completely transparent and truthful in the given answer. The worse that may come out is that you don't get hired (unless you confess to murder, maybe?). Lying, hiding facts or getting whatever kind of crafty to get hired will lead one to MUCH MUCH bigger trouble if/when it gets discovered later on. Think _treason_.

The main idea is to assess the ways in which an asset can get corrupted by outside influence. Agencies can work with people's various deficiencies and vices, after all it's what they do all day long. But they need to be able to qualify the risk represented by each of their people vs the other agencie's people.

Post reply on HN