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LK-99: The live online race for a room-temperature superconductor

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Re: LK-99: The live online race for a room-temperature superconductor

#321

Post by throw0101b »

tinco wrote: post #83
throw0101a wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do these prediction markets produce ? Some people are saying "yes" and others are saying "no", and the answer is either "yes" or "no", but why bother spending money on predicting when society can spend money on replicating it? Wouldn't an actual replication attempt be more useful? > The latter is a perfectly reasonable thing to do - it's not easy for an average person to "pay off some lab", but if they provide l…

They're producing the wisdom of the crowd, which is a real and highly accurate piece of information. It's quite difficult and expensive to produce information as fast and reliable by other means. And they don't cost much, it's mostly money being moved around. edit: I interpreted it as asking wether prediction markets in general produce value. In this specific case I'm 100% with you, they're absolutely useless in pred…

> They're producing the wisdom of the crowd, which is a real and highly accurate piece of information.

Unless the group of people is not a crowd but rather a mob.

Re: LK-99: The live online race for a room-temperature superconductor

#322

Post by KolenCh »

Off topic: any tool to have a quick summarization like this?

---

The blog post is about the discovery of a purported room-temperature-and-pressure (RTP) superconductor, labeled "LK-99". The discovery was announced in two papers published on arxiv.org on July 22, 2023. The first paper, which was short and seemed hastily written, had three authors: Sukbae Lee, Ji-Hoon Kim, and Young-Wan Kwon. The second paper was more detailed and had six authors, with Young-Wan Kwon being removed from the author list.

The LK-99 superconductor, originally synthesized in 1999, is claimed to have a critical temperature of 127°C, above the boiling point of water. The synthesis method is simple: finely grind and mix Lanarkite (Pb2(SO4)O) and Copper Phosphide (Cu3P) and bake it at 925°C in a vacuum chamber for a day.

The discovery has sparked a mix of skepticism and curiosity online. Young-Wan Kwon, the removed author from the first paper, crashed a science conference to talk about the discovery, adding to the intrigue.

The blog post also discusses the implications of a room-temperature superconductor, which could allow for things like an infinitely long power cable without loss, or a portable MRI scanner. It also provides a timeline of events and a list of ongoing replication efforts by various academic and private groups. The author emphasizes that scientific research is a gradual process, and the validity of the LK-99 superconductor is still being investigated.

Re: LK-99: The live online race for a room-temperature superconductor

#323

Post by lolinder »

jjk166 wrote: post #315
idopmstuff wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that matter? It's not like they could just be taking an over-the-counter room temperature superconductor and passing it off as something they made. If the thing exists and someone can make it, the specific process doesn't matter (but also why would they make it, publish a fake process and then go through all this rigamarole?).

> and someone can make it If the specified procedure is incorrect, then we can't make it. It doesn't need to be an elaborate con, it could just be a reasearcher misread a measurement, or recorded the wrong number, or their feedstock was contaminated. Replication ensures that the recipe includes the secret sauce that makes it actually work.

I don't think they're arguing that no one should try to replicate the process of making it, just that it makes sense to have another lab test the sample that has already been created. If it is in fact what they claim it is, then the worst case scenario is that we have a repeat of FOGBANK[0] and have to reverse engineer it.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fogbank

Re: LK-99: The live online race for a room-temperature superconductor

#324

Post by Ar-Curunir »

tinco wrote: post #83
throw0101a wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do these prediction markets produce ? Some people are saying "yes" and others are saying "no", and the answer is either "yes" or "no", but why bother spending money on predicting when society can spend money on replicating it? Wouldn't an actual replication attempt be more useful? > The latter is a perfectly reasonable thing to do - it's not easy for an average person to "pay off some lab", but if they provide l…

They're producing the wisdom of the crowd, which is a real and highly accurate piece of information. It's quite difficult and expensive to produce information as fast and reliable by other means. And they don't cost much, it's mostly money being moved around. edit: I interpreted it as asking wether prediction markets in general produce value. In this specific case I'm 100% with you, they're absolutely useless in pred…

The opinion of a crowd is generally useless in highly technical matters. The people betting on this stuff generally do not have the background to evaluate any claims appropriately, and just react to what other people (who they believe to be more informed) are saying.

Re: LK-99: The live online race for a room-temperature superconductor

#325

Post by epivosism »

bitcurious wrote: post #312
epivosism wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the fact that everyone is trying to replicate the process rather than validate the existing material is very weird. Replication is hard, validation is much easier. If they've had this material for years, just send some off to a few labs... People claiming unusual abilities/etc usually focus on a very difficult ceremony/situation/feeling/process rather than the outcome. Ghosts, spiritual experiences, etc. really…

Validation is good for the original team, replication is good for the new team.

Interesting point, yes. Also, if LK-99 is real, there are may be some close or easy adjustments or improvements to it to produce other, new interesting materials, which a replicating lab would be set up to start exploring ASAP. So I can see their preference for that path.

Re: LK-99: The live online race for a room-temperature superconductor

#326

Post by adastra22 »

alecst wrote: post #122
dawnofdusk wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Type-II super conductors may exhibit "flux pinning". Type-I super conductors do not.

Cool thanks. Gonna read up a little on that. Edit: yea it's interesting. Believe it or not, I studied L-G theory in grad school, taught a lab about (type-II) superconductors, but had no idea that type-I superconductors didn't flux pin. Just leaving this here from Wikipedia: > The superconductor must be a type-II superconductor because type-I superconductors cannot be penetrated by magnetic fields. Some type-I superco…

Also to follow up on your original point, this is a purported example of a linear superconductor. There are parallel columnar lines of superconductivity inside the mineral, like a bundle of wires. No such thing has ever been demonstrated before, and it is unlikely to have macro properties like those you are familiar with.

For example, flux pinning is (IIRC) due to circular currents induced in the superconductor. But how do you induce a circular current into a straight-line conductive wire with ~zero cross section?

Re: LK-99: The live online race for a room-temperature superconductor

#327

Post by [deleted] »

epivosism wrote: post #290
nmwnmw wrote: post #267

Isn't it sufficient to have another lab confirm that the existing sample is a super conductor? Then we can all sprint to replication.

Yes, the fact that everyone is trying to replicate the process rather than validate the existing material is very weird. Replication is hard, validation is much easier. If they've had this material for years, just send some off to a few labs... People claiming unusual abilities/etc usually focus on a very difficult ceremony/situation/feeling/process rather than the outcome. Ghosts, spiritual experiences, etc. really…

[deleted]

Re: LK-99: The live online race for a room-temperature superconductor

#328

Post by babelfish »

KolenCh wrote: post #322

Off topic: any tool to have a quick summarization like this? --- The blog post is about the discovery of a purported room-temperature-and-pressure (RTP) superconductor, labeled "LK-99". The discovery was announced in two papers published on arxiv.org on July 22, 2023. The first paper, which was short and seemed hastily written, had three authors: Sukbae Lee, Ji-Hoon Kim, and Young-Wan Kwon. The second paper was more…

ChatGPT

Re: LK-99: The live online race for a room-temperature superconductor

#330

Post by Lewton »

epivosism wrote: post #290
nmwnmw wrote: post #267

Isn't it sufficient to have another lab confirm that the existing sample is a super conductor? Then we can all sprint to replication.

Yes, the fact that everyone is trying to replicate the process rather than validate the existing material is very weird. Replication is hard, validation is much easier. If they've had this material for years, just send some off to a few labs... People claiming unusual abilities/etc usually focus on a very difficult ceremony/situation/feeling/process rather than the outcome. Ghosts, spiritual experiences, etc. really…

Allegedly, samples have already been sent out
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