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The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

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Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#441

Post by andruby »

jiveturkey wrote: post #400
andruby wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP per capita is $80K in the US. I suspect this includes people of all ages, so if we distribute this only to working age, that’s probably close to $100K (six figures)

GDP != salary. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/average-salary-by-ag... median wage at 45yo (the peak) is $64k.

I know. I’m an economist. The post was talking hypothetical if the gains were better distributed.

GDP/capita is that maximum hypothetical number where the full gross domestic production is evenly distributed to all people.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#442

Post by andruby »

Iulioh wrote: post #408
andruby wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s take a look at income (not wealth) The US has a GDP per capita of $80K, so if it were distributed equally, everyone would “get” $80K. Since in reality the distribution is very skewed a lot of people would earn more. Of course, that’s if we artificially constrain this to the US. The world-wide GDP per capita is only $12K. So if we’d be really equitable with the whole world, we’d all have to make do with a lot le…

That is just math and does not account of what this would cause to the economy. Is the same old discourse, if poor people get more money they will put it back in the economy and consume it generating a bigger economy and better life quality for everyone. And gdp is kindaaaa useless as wealth pays an important role. Economic inequality in income grew since the 80' and that's simply a fact

Of course. Afaik there are no numbers we could use to estimate the effect on GDP of such redistribution.

We could indeed hypothesize that GDP would increase due to poorer people having more to spend. On the other hand, in this scenario the successful business owners no longer earn outsized reward for their risk, so perhaps entrepreneurship and innovation is stumped. It’s very hard to predict the effect on GDP

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#443

Post by barrysteve »

coldtea wrote: post #375
optimalsolver wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that pine for the 50s are def suspicious.

[flagged]

That's why facebook allows teenage girls to bully each other into suicide.

Show me the facts and we won't have to agree on sophistry. We used to share the same facts as a society, in the 1950s. Society can't agree on the shape of the earth anymore as a basic fact, and you want to tell me everything is better in all aspects.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#444

Post by supertrope »

nitwit005 wrote: post #162

Difficult to prove, but I suspect this complaint is one business owners make when they realize their business is going to fail. They know they could get more workers if they paid more, but they also know they can't afford that. It's always easier to blame the people below you.

It’s the fundamental attribution error in action. When other people fail they can point out some individual flaw. When they themselves fail it was external forces.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#445

Post by dclowd9901 »

pmulard wrote: post #296
dclowd9901 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you see, you’re kind of making my point for me. Being good isn’t the same as being good enough. And this is only a problem if every industry is saturated with people who are good enough. This isn’t the case, and if I’m not good enough at playing guitar to make a living at it, I go elsewhere. I don’t ask the world to make me a spot. We need more carpenters and plumbers and a whole host of other industries. It feel…

Ok let me rephrase this - the people I referenced aren’t good - they’re amazing. They have the credentials (Juilliard, S.I. Newhouse, etc.) and the work experience (lead role on broadway, ESPN and sports illustrated) and it’s still a massive struggle in their industries. Compare that to being a warm body at a landscaping job, where the bar is “I showed up to work today” and it’s not even a comparison. It’s the laws o…

And let me rephrase as well: be a Julliard, SI Newhouse. It doesn’t matter: if nobody fucking cares about what you do… they don’t fucking care about what you do. You aren’t going to change that.

One of the smartest people I know was a Julliard instructor. I love hearing their stories about their experiences in that world, but I can easily see why their “talent” didn’t translate into real world success. Despite their genius in musical interpretation, there taste is completely non-normative. Are you really arguing that the world is wrong and they aren’t?

It doesn’t fucking matter what you think matters. It only matters what _everyone else_ thinks matters. Feel free to downvote that opinion — I might be cynical but you’re wrong.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#446

Post by dclowd9901 »

overgard wrote: post #280
dclowd9901 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone isn’t successful in making money on that work, though, it means it isn’t very good. I know it’s not a 1:1 result, but in reality, if you put in the hours and you make things people want, you will be successful. The problem is everyone who works on something they’re passionate about (even if they suck at it) thinks they ought to be compensated, even if their contributions amount to exactly Jack shit. Meanwh…

I don't think that's true. Think about musicians -- someone can create incredible music and never make enough to support themselves, it happens all the time. Same with visual art. It has much less to do with quality and more to do with social trends, having a certain "look" or identity, etc. Sure, hard work and not sucking are the prerequisites, but they aren't enough on their own.

Is it really incredible if no one thinks it’s incredible?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#447

Post by dclowd9901 »

FactKnower69 wrote: post #324
dclowd9901 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone isn’t successful in making money on that work, though, it means it isn’t very good. I know it’s not a 1:1 result, but in reality, if you put in the hours and you make things people want, you will be successful. The problem is everyone who works on something they’re passionate about (even if they suck at it) thinks they ought to be compensated, even if their contributions amount to exactly Jack shit. Meanwh…

>if you put in the hours and you make things people want, you will be successful. What thing does a landlord make? What are the hours on the job of owning dividend-paying securities? Being successful in this economy has literally nothing to do with "making things people want" and "putting in the hours".

Who here is defending land lords? They are useless.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#448

Post by supertrope »

coffeefirst wrote: post #80
gambiting wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>But at the end of the day there's no satisfaction. If that's the case then you need to find a different job. Plenty of people are really satisfied with what they do at work. I've accepted lower salary for years because the job I did was really satisfying and I'm still glad I was part of it.

Sure but these can be hard to find. Let's suppose the factors that make people like their jobs are a sense of ownership, applying skills, having friends, a high level of trust, and a sense that they're contributing something useful (the classic example is the construction worker isn't laying bricks, he's building a house). The hyper-financialized economy we find ourselves in loves meaningless Goals and OKRs, then doe…

This is why I roll my eyes internally when business leaders talk about wanting employees who are passionate about their role. When forced to choose decision makers will size up an individual contributor’s performance KPIs not their passion. e.g. Did you close enough sales? Was your butt planted in seat on schedule? Did you generally resolve problems for them or create them? Saying anything to suggest otherwise is a trick to distract you from keeping your eye on the ball.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#449

Post by dclowd9901 »

winternett wrote: post #198
dclowd9901 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone isn’t successful in making money on that work, though, it means it isn’t very good. I know it’s not a 1:1 result, but in reality, if you put in the hours and you make things people want, you will be successful. The problem is everyone who works on something they’re passionate about (even if they suck at it) thinks they ought to be compensated, even if their contributions amount to exactly Jack shit. Meanwh…

You can be a baker and make the best cakes in the world, but if your shop is located in the wrong place (like a dark alley with no foot traffic) where no one knows it exists, your business can fail if you don't also learn marketing, and possibly move to a better positioned (but more expensive of course) spot. A better spot, and marketing lessons though, are hinged on having the money to make that happen... Many peopl…

I think you’re putting far too much stake on location. These days, folks will happily travel out of the way to find a unique or extraordinary experience. There has never been a time where people were more mobile.

I can site a personal experience example. In Portland, for a while, nobody would visit anywhere north of Alberta on the east side of the river. Around this time, a young person by the name of Matt was selling barbecue out of his little truck up near Ainsworth and MLK. In some dirt lot with no support beyond folks like myself writing Yelp reviews, he was selling the best barbecue in the city.

Now, they have multiple locations there and are sure to grow.

Location doesn’t fucking matter. Talent matters. People will show up and buy and fill their limited stomach space. Not for 3rd best or 2nd best but for the best. And blaming them for not wanting the best is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#450

Post by deafpolygon »

barrysteve wrote: post #443
coldtea wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's why facebook allows teenage girls to bully each other into suicide. Show me the facts and we won't have to agree on sophistry. We used to share the same facts as a society, in the 1950s. Society can't agree on the shape of the earth anymore as a basic fact, and you want to tell me everything is better in all aspects.

> Society can't agree on the shape of the earth anymore as a basic fact

This has always been the case, but it's just more evident now that the Internet makes it easy for you to read the viewpoints of others.

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