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US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

theguardian.com

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Re: US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

#21

Post by tpmoney »

TeffenEllis wrote: post #5

I’ve been a remote engineer for over a decade, but only recently switched to a hybrid schedule on Tuesdays and Thursdays. IMO, these two days are effectively useless for any kind of productive technical work. There are simply too many visual distractions, interruptions, and a complete lack of comfort in an office. …But I do enjoy these in-office days for what they make up for in remote work: Face to face chats; Real…

>…But I do enjoy these in-office days for what they make up for in remote work: >Face to face chats; Real time human bonding; A sense of place. The office is just >a socially accepted excuse to get everyone out of their homes and together for a >few hours. > >I’m especially grateful that our cofounders understand why we should actually be >at the office, and that any expectation of “being more productive” is nothing more >but a polite fiction. Ironically, our two days in the office are mostly spent just >outside the building. Technical chats over lunch, 1 on 1 meetings as a walk around >the neighborhood, and drinks in the evening. That’s what hybrid should be. I’ll >send my pull requests at 3 am while in my comfy chair at home.

I feel like these sorts of things are part of "being more productive" though. Having a good rapport with your co-workers, having a chance to talk about side things, having a chance for people whose domains don't normally cross to hear what's going on elsewhere. These are all parts of being a well functioning and productive team. It's a real shame that larger organizations tend to lose sight of that, but it's also a shame in my opinion that this whole fight over remote vs in office work has gotten the workers pretending that nothing but the numbers matter. This really feels like a "be careful what you wish for" moment.

Re: US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

#22

Post by latchkey »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #19
latchkey wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don’t need a Chipotle on every corner. We don’t need another $20 box salad store. These are the only types of business that can afford the rents though. Even if you get another lower cost place in there, they have to cut corners on quality and end up going out of business or just being really bad food. How do you overcome that?

Lower the rent.

Easier said than done. Limited space == Higher rent.

People are downvoting me, but not really understanding what I'm saying. Even if there is more empty space, what is happening is that landlords are leaving them empty, which keeps the rents higher because there is still limited effective availability. They aren't going to rent to a small business because they don't want to get locked into a 5-10 year lease on a small business when they can potentially wait a bit and rent to a larger business who will pay more and likely survive longer.

Re: US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

#23

Post by Animats »

softwaredoug wrote: post #4

It’s weird going to downtown SF these days. Everyone seems from out of town. Or if they live nearby, just downtown for their teams onsite. It’s like a decrepit city district that exists for the sole purpose of flying people in to meet in person. Less a thriving center for tech. More a default place for leadership to get everyone together. Obviously the vicious cycle of nimbyism, lack of affordability, and homelessnes…

> exists for the sole purpose of flying people in to meet in person. Less a thriving center for tech. More a default place for leadership to get everyone together.

Right. In which case you may as well meet at an airport hotel with good meeting rooms.

Maybe there is a market for that. Repurpose under-utilized indoor malls as business conference centers where teams meet once or twice a week. Malls have plenty of space, plenty of parking, good HVAC, food facilities, and some shopping. All you need to make an unused store into a meeting space is furniture.

Re: US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

#24

Post by ransom1538 »

softwaredoug wrote: post #4

It’s weird going to downtown SF these days. Everyone seems from out of town. Or if they live nearby, just downtown for their teams onsite. It’s like a decrepit city district that exists for the sole purpose of flying people in to meet in person. Less a thriving center for tech. More a default place for leadership to get everyone together. Obviously the vicious cycle of nimbyism, lack of affordability, and homelessnes…

I lived in SF for 15 years. The apartment prices are still insane (for a non violent neighborhood). I hope the entire place collapses, so you can get a run down 2 bedroom for 2k. Like it should be. Let artists start moving back in.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/d/san-francisco-large-t...

Re: US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

#25

Post by klodolph »

tpmoney wrote: post #21
TeffenEllis wrote: post #5

I’ve been a remote engineer for over a decade, but only recently switched to a hybrid schedule on Tuesdays and Thursdays. IMO, these two days are effectively useless for any kind of productive technical work. There are simply too many visual distractions, interruptions, and a complete lack of comfort in an office. …But I do enjoy these in-office days for what they make up for in remote work: Face to face chats; Real…

>…But I do enjoy these in-office days for what they make up for in remote work: >Face to face chats; Real time human bonding; A sense of place. The office is just >a socially accepted excuse to get everyone out of their homes and together for a >few hours. > >I’m especially grateful that our cofounders understand why we should actually be >at the office, and that any expectation of “being more productive” is nothing…

> I feel like these sorts of things are part of "being more productive" though.

Yeah.

There are some things which can be more difficult when you’re remote. Working through a design—it’s so much better when you have two people in a room with a whiteboard or paper. Onboarding. Going through a gnarly code review (where you really want some major changes to the code before it gets shipped). Debriefing after a meeting, where you and your teammate know that the meeting was a complete waste of time, but you need a chance to kvetch about it offline and off the record.

Re: US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

#26

Post by leetrout »

Animats wrote: post #23
softwaredoug wrote: post #4

It’s weird going to downtown SF these days. Everyone seems from out of town. Or if they live nearby, just downtown for their teams onsite. It’s like a decrepit city district that exists for the sole purpose of flying people in to meet in person. Less a thriving center for tech. More a default place for leadership to get everyone together. Obviously the vicious cycle of nimbyism, lack of affordability, and homelessnes…

> exists for the sole purpose of flying people in to meet in person. Less a thriving center for tech. More a default place for leadership to get everyone together. Right. In which case you may as well meet at an airport hotel with good meeting rooms. Maybe there is a market for that. Repurpose under-utilized indoor malls as business conference centers where teams meet once or twice a week. Malls have plenty of space,…

A few malls are trying this.

I called my local mall to use their little event space (think 60 folding chairs and a podium in a 900 sqft box). No call back.

I am continually surprised at how hard it is to find a place to hold a small meetup in the evenings

Re: US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

#27

Post by zeroCalories »

softwaredoug wrote: post #8
zeroCalories wrote: post #6

I think one thing people aren't considering is how remote work makes people more easily substitutable. Why live in SF if you can live in a small Colorado town? Why pay for a remote developer in SF when you could pay for a remote developer in Arizona? Why hire in the U.S when you can get a good dev in South America? There used to be a geographic monopoly on labor, but making remote the norm moves us away from that. Ma…

To some degree yes, However living in the same city is only one aspect of substitutability. There’s also specialized skills, organizational tenure, time zone, how easily legally a company can hire in a country, language barrier and many others.

I agree that it's only one aspect, but the other ones you mentioned are becoming less of an issue over time. I'm not worried about my job over the next 5 years, but 10? 20? What about my child's first job?

Re: US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

#28

Post by wewtyflakes »

latchkey wrote: post #22
lotsofpulp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower the rent.

Easier said than done. Limited space == Higher rent. People are downvoting me, but not really understanding what I'm saying. Even if there is more empty space, what is happening is that landlords are leaving them empty, which keeps the rents higher because there is still limited effective availability. They aren't going to rent to a small business because they don't want to get locked into a 5-10 year lease on a smal…

Isn't the main thrust of the argument that supply has outpaced demand in commercial real estate?

Re: US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

#29

Post by phpisthebest »

TeffenEllis wrote: post #5

I’ve been a remote engineer for over a decade, but only recently switched to a hybrid schedule on Tuesdays and Thursdays. IMO, these two days are effectively useless for any kind of productive technical work. There are simply too many visual distractions, interruptions, and a complete lack of comfort in an office. …But I do enjoy these in-office days for what they make up for in remote work: Face to face chats; Real…

>>But I do enjoy these in-office days for what they make up for in remote work: Face to face chats; Real time human bonding; A sense of place.

Every-time I am in the office I remember a scene from the west wing where the quote is "He thinks decisions are made in meetings...." expressing that most decisions are made in informal discussions in hallways, or impromptu mini-meetings standing in someones office door. Meetings are where we tell everyone the decisions that were already made

It is hard to replicate that in a remote work environment, maybe that is better I dont know, but for I see the advantage of both

Re: US offices are sitting empty – business owners will have to adapt

#30

Post by AntiRemote »

RyanAdamas wrote: post #14

Ultimately, the money for these projects comes from the government. Major works projects which have revolutionized how we live never begin as private enterprise; those are relegated to products and services with incremental contributions to our advancements. The USA needs State-based Socialism and not this consumeristic crony capitalism that is killing our humanity in every respect. Global socialism is just other cou…

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