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IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

koshka.love

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Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#411

Post by Zetice »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #393
Zetice wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord isn’t worse than an IRC client because it doesn’t log private chats, it’s superior because it doesn’t log private chats. And if you thing your “other things” are unique to Discord you’re kidding yourself.

> Discord isn’t worse than an IRC client because it doesn’t log private chats, it’s superior because it doesn’t log private chats. I would say that having it stored indefinitely on third party servers, but not stored on my local computer, is the worst of both worlds. > And if you thing your “other things” are unique to Discord you’re kidding yourself. Some IRC channels may have the same policies around bots, but IRC…

You have no clue how Discord stores private messages, and IRC absolutely forces you to use a bot to have logs.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#412

Post by bhickey »

tiltowait wrote: post #368
bhickey wrote: post #18

Why not matrix? Due to the creeping shitification of Discord my friends moved over to a self-hosted matrix server. It costs about $5/mo and does everything we need it to do.

What’s Discord done to make itself worse?

The username change seems like a harbinger.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#413

Post by lightedman »

imchillyb wrote: post #289
lightedman wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Discord's search function is so bad it's essentially unusable" Discord's search function is 1,000x better than what's built into Windows 10 and 11. I've found pictures I posted from years ago in discord, Windows 10 can't even find half the files I downloaded and transferred to another drive the other day.

> I've found pictures I posted from years ago in discord, Windows 10 can't even find half the files I downloaded and transferred to another drive the other day. That sounds like indexing settings, on your end, are not sufficient for your use cases. I suggest decreasing the interval between indexing on your machine. If indexing is correctly setup in windows any/all files will be immediately searchable and indexed.

As another replay pointed out - Windows Search some times can't even see files in the very folder you're currently viewing, indexed or not.

FWIW I have DisableBackOff = 1 set so indexing happens faster than default.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#414

Post by Dylan16807 »

Zetice wrote: post #411
Dylan16807 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Discord isn’t worse than an IRC client because it doesn’t log private chats, it’s superior because it doesn’t log private chats. I would say that having it stored indefinitely on third party servers, but not stored on my local computer, is the worst of both worlds. > And if you thing your “other things” are unique to Discord you’re kidding yourself. Some IRC channels may have the same policies around bots, but IRC…

You have no clue how Discord stores private messages, and IRC absolutely forces you to use a bot to have logs.

Oh, are you trolling?

I mean maybe you thought I meant "third party to discord" when I actually meant "third party to the conversation".

But there's no way you actually think you need a bot to log an IRC channel.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#415

Post by 59nadir »

cout wrote: post #81
masklinn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond the backlog support, it's the addressing of the backlog. Discord's search function is so bad it's essentially unusable so having the backlog is often useless, however the ability to "pin" a useful message or discussion by getting a link is very relevant. Baseline IRC doesn't have message addressing, regardless of backlogging. You need the "message-tags" extension ( https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/message-ta…

Calling search unusable is hyperbole. I've used search on discord many times to find a discussion from the past.

In the past month I've had to use Discord search to find something important twice. Both times it took 20+ minutes and when I actually found the results I noticed that I typed things that ought to have given me the results but just didn't. In one other case I never actually found the correct message but found the URL I was looking for elsewhere and decided to try it out to see if it'd find the correct message. Pasting literally the exact URL did point to the correct message but no other combination of host, part of URL, etc. would.

While that's not technically unusable it's far beyond the level where I'll even try to find something in Discord unless it's very important.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#416

Post by Zetice »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #414
Zetice wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no clue how Discord stores private messages, and IRC absolutely forces you to use a bot to have logs.

Oh, are you trolling? I mean maybe you thought I meant "third party to discord" when I actually meant "third party to the conversation". But there's no way you actually think you need a bot to log an IRC channel.

No, you said third party and meant Discord, falsely presuming Discord stores the content of your private conversations in an accessible way, and in this context in a way that makes it… harder? To publish as documentation (you know, the original topic).

And since you’ve apparently never joined an IRC channel before, you don’t get any history of the channel at all, you only get the messages that are sent while you’re in there, and IRC servers don’t log every message to some file. If you knew how these servers worked you’d know how that wouldn’t work very well.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#418

Post by Dylan16807 »

Zetice wrote: post #416
Dylan16807 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, are you trolling? I mean maybe you thought I meant "third party to discord" when I actually meant "third party to the conversation". But there's no way you actually think you need a bot to log an IRC channel.

No, you said third party and meant Discord, falsely presuming Discord stores the content of your private conversations in an accessible way, and in this context in a way that makes it… harder? To publish as documentation (you know, the original topic). And since you’ve apparently never joined an IRC channel before, you don’t get any history of the channel at all, you only get the messages that are sent while you’re i…

> falsely presuming Discord stores the content of your private conversations in an accessible way

What do you mean presuming? I can log in from anywhere and access them, and they're not encrypted with any key I'm the controller of.

> and in this context in a way that makes it… harder? To publish as documentation (you know, the original topic)

You can't add a bot to an existing direct chat. You can only make new group chats. So you can't export it with a bot. So bots can't solve everything.

> And since you’ve apparently never joined an IRC channel before, you don’t get any history of the channel at all, you only get the messages that are sent while you’re in there, and IRC servers don’t log every message to some file.

Sure? But I didn't say you got history on IRC.

Being a bot is neither necessary nor sufficient for getting every message. The real requirement is staying connected constantly, which is a completely separate issue.

> If you knew how these servers worked you’d know how that wouldn’t work very well.

It's not 1993 anymore, it would work fine. It's a good chunk of the IRCv3 efforts.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#419

Post by kangalioo »

nullifidian wrote: post #344
chromatin wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many who have causally read about Matrix and looked into running a homeserver have run across the reference implementation Synapse, which is (IMO only, pls no flame) a bloated python monstrosity. This turned me off for years. A second-gen (?) alternative written in Go called Dendrite is much lighter weight, but is lacking in some features last I looked. A couple of years ago, I found Conduit ( https://conduit.rs/ ) a…

>bloated python monstrosity >an ultra lightweight 370 crates in Cargo.lock 176 crates downloaded by cargo-tree

To be fair this is a problem of the Rust web ecosystem. Include a few de-facto standard Rust web crates and you're up to 200 transitive dependencies

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#420

Post by Mawr »

Mawr wrote: post #324
lightedman wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Discord's search function is so bad it's essentially unusable" Discord's search function is 1,000x better than what's built into Windows 10 and 11. I've found pictures I posted from years ago in discord, Windows 10 can't even find half the files I downloaded and transferred to another drive the other day.

That is to say, Discord's search actually works. It may not work great , but it will find all posts containing the word "dog" when you search for it. The search in windows explorer, on reddit and on most forums will often fail to find an item even if you search for its exact name. Last I tried it, windows explorer couldn't find a file in the folder I was already viewing. It's impressive.

There we go, another perfect example: https://www.sainsburys.co.uk. Search for "walkers". Enjoy two pages of Walkers products randomly intermixed with other crisps. You'd like the "Walkers Baked" variety? Searching for that returns 2 results, instead of the expected 4+. Example missing result: https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/walkers-baked-se.... Now try searching for "Walkers Baked Ready", different UI (???), same two results, but this time what we're looking for is in the "suggested related products".

How do companies tolerate such obviously awful search experiences?

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