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The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

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Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#281

Post by bluGill »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #188
momirlan wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i agree 100% , but what is the solution to that ? just raising wages en masse erodes the power of money and leads to inflation.

Inflation can be combatted by taxing it out of the economy - the issue is who do we tax. One should always tax the rich first - like robbing banks that's where the money is

The money is in the middle class though. Sure the rich have a bunch, but the middle class has far more. In real terms taxing the rich won't bring in enough money to count unless you redefine rich to cover most middle class.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#282

Post by gagged_s_poster »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #158
bbarn wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard the argument that a negative effect of the post WW2 "feminist" movement (by that I mean women in the work force) has had the long term effect of causing prices to simply adjust to the dual income household, to the point that now it is a necessity. It is a privileged family today that can afford to live comfortably on only one salary.

Why put feminist between quotes?

[flagged]

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#283

Post by topaztee »

jader201 wrote: post #69
cmilton wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I will never work a job with a >10 minute commute another day in my life. On top of the time lost, you don’t even get paid for it. It costs you time and money to go to work.

I wonder if workers, at some point, will be able to start demanding compensation for commute to work, when there it is perfectly possible to work from home? E.g. these tech companies that are starting to require employees to return to office. On the other hand, we don’t get compensated (fully [1]) for the utilities cost from working from home. [1] Some reimburse things like internet, but that’s about it. We can’t eve…

by law, in israel we get compensated each month for travel costs its called "The Right to a Travel Allowance"

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#284

Post by Nifty3929 »

cypherpunks01 wrote: post #22

I found 2011 to be the most enlightening quote: > Man, what a weird week. Unless it's on their own terms, it seems nobody wants to work anymore. It's the only one with any acknowledgement that agreeable terms may actually be needed in order to attract people to work. It doesn't take a PhD to figure this out! Utah Phillips, one of my favorite storytellers and all-around anarchist and hobo has a line I was reminded of:…

This Utah Phillips quote sounds like it came right out of Atlas Shrugged.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#285

Post by Iulioh »

alisonatwork wrote: post #205
usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

I think it's important to note that the good old days of a working man being able to support a family of five was only true for a brief period of history in a handful of elite countries. In most of the world, and for most of human history, it hasn't been the case that any single person working 40 hours a week could provide a luxurious lifestyle for a large family. While some lament the loss of this golden age their g…

Honestly that's a valid criticism

BUT

I would point out the wealth distribution in our economy.

If it was more equable would this luxurious lifestyle for all still be possible ?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#286

Post by lanecwagner »

laurels-marts wrote: post #271
glimshe wrote: post #244

Working in most jobs sucks. Some people are lucky to have jobs they love, but that's the minority. I know that to be the prevalent sentiment even in top notch, AAA, "I can't believe they pay me to do this" companies such as Google, Apple etc. If people had, for the sake of a thought experiment, a guaranteed 20K/month income and free healthcare no matter what they do with their life, it's very unlikely they will choos…

> They will instead generally pursue arts/crafts (including the craft of building computer programs in areas they are interested in), learning, exercise etc. I always hear this argument about UBI and it almost sounds too good to be true. Like utopian. And I wonder what segment of population will actually become artists and craftsmen with renewed sense of purpose and fulfillment vs. the folks that will accelerate even…

Some might. Most would watch TV, hang out with friends/family, scroll TikTok, workout, and play videogames

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#287

Post by itsboring »

bluefishinit wrote: post #277
almost_usual wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog." I even called this out during a formal performance review and her behavior hasn't changed at all. (Work-from-home abuse is another component of this observation.) Good for her, it takes confidence to do this. Overworking engineers into burnout isn’t a healthy career path.

I was going to say, she sounds like someone I'd want in management. Confidently putting life before work in the work/life balance is the way to avoid burnout, maximize creativity and hire amazing people.

Whoa, is this why The Bobs wanted to promote Peter?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#288

Post by pclmulqdq »

nradov wrote: post #258
usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

Here's some perspective. In lower cost areas of the country it's still totally possible for a single worker to support a family of five, buy a house, a car, and afford a vacation. But in that idealized version of the past that you're describing the normal standards of living were much lower. The typical worker's house was small with everyone sharing one bathroom. The car was unreliable and dangerous. The vacation was…

A big part of this seems to be the idea that a highly-educated urban professional ought to have a better life than a journeyman plumber in a rural area. The reality is that there is a lot more supply of educated professionals and a lot more demand for city life, so it should not be surprising that wages in formerly-elite jobs are being depressed and cost of living is shooting up. In the meantime, the plumber's economic situation has largely improved with the booming economy and the dwindling supply of plumbers.

If you want a high quality of life today and aren't worth $10+ million, the best way to get it is to get out of a city.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#289

Post by JoshuaEN »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #58

As a tech lead, the big problem I see now is that people are not hungry anymore. The best engineers I've ever worked with were consistently asking for more and leveling up the team at the same time. Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by, and they seem totally unbothered by it. One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog." I eve…

What's the point in being "hungry"? To fill the pockets of some soulless corporation and hope they'll pass down some scraps while making record profits?

I have worked at the same place for 5 years; worked hard, continuously received great/exelecent reviews, several promotions, but I have only just kept up with inflation the past few years (and am probably net negative accounting for the timing of the rases), and before that it was 2% effective (for top marks). Plus "post-COVID" forced RTO, with all the costs associated with that.

All in all, I am paid around the market rate (for the area) for my prior role, despite having performed at my current role for 2+ years now (with continued high marks).

I still put in an honest 8 hours of work, but no more (mostly). Sometimes I wish I could be like those who work a little as possible and likely get paid almost as much (or more if they joined after), but that's not who I am.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#290

Post by mihaic »

Why would anybody want to work as a default? Work is a trade of your time for some financial security. It's a sacrifice that doesn't need to be glorified.

I do understand that a functioning society needs to good work ethic where this transactional aspect is not in the mind of the worker while he's actually doing the work, since it's a hinderance. When we're discussing work as a topic though it needs to be considered as a core truth.

Conflating salary work and personal activities (cooking, cleaning, fixing something around the house) is part of the definition of work as well.

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